Cam Wake and Koa Misi both have 7 letter names and have both made the Dolphins headlines this week during the dead air-time of American Football that is the middle of Summer.
First, Jason Taylor mentioned that Cam Wake should have a breakout year and make Dolfans forget all about JT (which I thought was another backhanded slight towards Dolfans suggesting that we would just forget about our biggest star of the last decade (as if we would 'forget' all about Dan Marino if Chad Henne led us to an AFC Championship), and then the media suddenly decided to appoint Misi as the starting strong-side linebacker based on the 3 short media sessions they saw during OTAs.
Do I think Wake will have a breakout year - yes of course, he was 3rd or 4th in line to rush the passer last season, this year the worst he'll be is 2nd in line. Based on playing time alone his numbers should jump 30- 50%.
Do I think Wake will have a breakout year - yes of course, he was 3rd or 4th in line to rush the passer last season, this year the worst he'll be is 2nd in line. Based on playing time alone his numbers should jump 30- 50%.
Do I think Misi will start at SOLB - this is a tougher question. First of all, it's impossible to judge any linebackers before the pads go on and there is actual tackling going on. Rule number one of Defense - make the tackle! Misi's draft status and football smarts aren't going to get him the starting job if Charlie Anderson outplays him in the pre-season.
And of course, Anderson is the key to both Wake and Misi's 2010 season. If Anderson wins the weak-side job, then a most-likely rotation of Wake, Misi, and Edds will likely continue the 2009 trend of having a non-pro-bowl player at the strong-side. On the other hand, if Wake beats out Anderson for the weak-side job, I think a straight up competition between Anderson's experience and decent play (on defense, not on special teams) and Misi's upside and pursuit speed would eventually go Anderson's way. Sure, Anderson hasn't made a huge splash in the last 2 years as a Dolphin, but he's made bigger ripples than Quentin Moses and Erik Walden in that span and seems the closest to a fully-developed NFL LB out of the three.
Of course, the media loves to appoint the rookies as starters in June, but the reality is, rookies rarely start. Rookies generally work there way up the ladder on special teams and spot duty and when a team-mate gets injured.
Ultimately, I'm saying we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves and speculate that Cam Wake will get 15 sacks and Misi will get 85 tackles and that we'll all forget about JT after this season. However, it would be a successful year in my opinion, if we forget about these two guys:
jt is hoping all dolphin fans forget about him so when he comes back to miami they will forget he stabbed them in the back and joined the yets. wont happen jt, once a yet always a yet. hope you enjoy ryan always stealing your pregame meal.
ReplyDeleteAny dude that had to grow up with the name Nawa'akoa Lisiate Foti Analeseanoa Misi is bound for greatness but...
ReplyDeleteThe scouting reports were less than flatering, but he did play well in the senior bowl in front of the Dolphin coaching staff. The knocks on him were, he is not overly physical. He is thin and under-developed and lacks the bulk to hold his ground against offensive linemen on run blocks. He does not move through traffic particularly well and misses too many open field tackles. He has a bad habit of stopping in mid play and does not read passing plays well.
This is the guy we are talking about being our edge setter and coverage LB. So I have to agree with you Tin, I don't see him starting right away. He may come on really strong but he looks like a guy they intend to remold in the weight room. Being an end in college it will take at least a year to learn the weakside OLB position in the pros. I would expect him to see a lot of time on special teams but I would not look for him to start unless the Trifecta is willing to sacrifice a few early mistakes, which I really don't see happening.
JT committed the mortal sin going to the yets... He can never come back to Miami and I guess he took that into consideration when he made the choice. He basically gave us the Brian Cox salute but at least Brain knew which direction the finger should be pointed.
ReplyDeleteTo me the biggest worry isn't his size or strength, but his sort of blase attitude about football - he has a history of sounding like he's only doing it because he's good at it, and it's all he knows he's good at.
ReplyDeleteI actually found his game tape to be a bit blase too, nothing exciting, but he doesn't get beat and he showed he can drop back into coverage as well as set the edge - he played with his hand down at Utah, but they weren't utilizing him as a 4-3 end really. He constantly dropped back from that stance - he may have lined up at DE but he essentially played LB.
Anyway, I don't want to knock on him too much, that wasn't my point in the article - I just think he has an uphill battle to even make the team, much less start, whereas the mass media has basically suggested he's a lock - what they don't take into consideration is that the coaches probably had him going full speed with the 1s so often because he's playing catchup to the competition and he's going to need to be up to speed or else Quentin Moses and Erik Walden are going to pack Misi's bags and put him on the waiver bus.
I have to agree with Patrick. Misi doesn't look like he has the strength to set the edge and needs a year in the weight room to be sculpted for the job. Regarding his "blase attitude", there is just no way to know what that really means. These island guys seem to be perma-mellow, but many of them are beasts on the field.
ReplyDeleteI want Misi to be a success right off the bat but if i was a betting man, i would say that Anderson and Wake are our two starters. If Misi and Wake can't get starting roles, we are in HUUUUGE trouble.
I still wouldn't be surprised if we pick up a OLB free agent.
Yeah, see that's the problem, if I say 'blase' it sounds negative but if I say 'Chillax' or something like it it sound too positive...I'm not saying he doesn't care, I'm just saying it comes across that way in his interviews. His pre-draft/pro day interviews were shockingly 'indifferent'.
ReplyDeleteTaking on JT is not a way to win friends and influence people I should know, but I'll give you props for doing so. This is one of the reasons I follow your site. I love the way you bash someone and everyone still loves you. :)
ReplyDeleteYou are also correct in the matter of the way the media annoits the rookies as the starters with little more info than what we have. Just because a rookie is working with the first team unit in OTAs means nothing. It tickles me to see how many fans jump all over those meaningless happenings of the OTAs.
Yeah, what's up with nobody ever getting mad at Tin? Special powers? Brittish courtesy? Or is he just too damn nice?
ReplyDeleteYeah, what's up with nobody ever getting mad at Tin? Special powers? Brittish courtesy? Or is he just too damn nice?
ReplyDelete<span>everyone loves tin???????? did i miss a memo or something. i didnt know that was part of the deal and here i thought we were just suppose to idolize him. </span>
ReplyDeleteThat's what you get for not reading what he writes....
ReplyDeleteRemember,
ReplyDeleteTin started this site b/c the SS and it's closed-minded "didn't luv him"...
I think we're all just scared he'll ban us, ;) LOL!!
I didn't notice Tin bashing JT(though JT was craving attention), I saw Tin saying
"lets hope the new gyz play well enough so that some can justifiably bash JT/JP next yr"...
Tin
ReplyDelete" he's going to need to be up to speed or else Quentin Moses and Erik Walden are going to pack Misi's bags and put him on the waiver bus."
That ain't gonna happen, @the least he can compete as a 2nd rnd pk WC QB...
Seriously, that ain't gonna happen,even ifff Moses walks on water!!
Coaches must see something special in @least 2 of 3 (Anderson, Wake, Moses)...
The trifecta gave PW a chance last year, and they didn't let P Turner hardly touch the field, but they are still with the team. Although I don't know why. Misi would have to really stink the place up to get cut this year. The trifecta in most cases give their draft picks a chance to make the team. Looking at the history of the trifecta Misi will be with the team this year.
ReplyDelete13 to quote Tin "<span>However, it would be a successful year in my opinion, if we forget about these two guys:" Tin was talking about JT and JP with that sentence. Now I know I'm deaf, dumb, and blind, but that is bashing in my book. </span>
Do I have to call you up and give you the what for again. :)
I agree KV and Fang, there is no way the trifecta is going to cut a 2nd round pick after one preseason regardless of how well he does or doesn't play. There must be some upside we are not seeing and my assumption is he can carry a lot more muscle.
ReplyDeleteRemember those dudes who had beards when we were playing in the 7th grade. My running mate Andy was like that, I would just turn and hand it off to him and boom, he was gone or he would run everyone right over. By the time we were in high school he was still the same size, but everyone else had grown past him. While we were being looked at by college recruiters he was already past his prime. This is what I see with Misi, a late bloomer, one of those guys who is still growing and has a lot of upside.
Did anyone ever see the films of Tom Brady at the combine? What a freaking goof!!! He is the perfect example of a guy who reached his prime at the perfect time. I think a lot of scouts and personnel people look for these types of players, guys who have not yet peaked and Misi looks like one of those guys to me.
<span>"13 to quote Tin "<span>However, it would be a successful year in my opinion, if we forget about these two guys:" Tin was talking about JT and JP with that sentence. Now I know I'm deaf, dumb, and blind, but that is bashing in my book."</span></span>
ReplyDeleteYou know that the photo is of Matt Roth and not JT right?
I'm not bashing anybody, but 2008 we had the kind of production we want out of our WOLB and SOLB, Porter and Roth were the best duo we've had under this regime - yet they weren't team players and didn't 'buy in'.
My point was that we'd have a good year if whomever we line up, they match or eclipse the year that Porter and Roth had together at the same positions.
I don't think it's bashing anyone to say I hope we do as well as they did....that's actually a compliment, not a bash.
Another reason I point out Roth - He wasn't on the team last year yet for many of us we spent the season wishing he was - despite the fact we had replaced him with JT, a Dolphin legend. The truth is, regardless of the off-the-field issues, Roth was the prototypical SOLB, he had the size, the motor, the fierceness, and the production - he set the edge, he rushed the QB, he took up alot of space downfield, etc.
ReplyDeleteI'm not interested in 'how are we going to replace JT' I'm interested in how are we going to replace or replicate Roth, because last year was a definite step backwards in that regard (okay that was slight JT bashing) ;)
I won't weigh in on what constitutes "JT bashing", BUT.....feel free to do so!
ReplyDeleteAs far as our LB situation (both inside/out) I feel "safer" than most feel I guess because we do have a lot of bodies there competing. It's just a matter of who rises to the occasion. Maybe its the Rook Misi, maybe Moses and Anderson and Wake show us they've been buried behind bigger names, but can do some damage to opposing offences. I do miss having Roth manning SOLB, and you nailed it Tin, we need someone to bring back his motor and strength. I did read that Wake has been sporting a mohawk so maybe the corps is heading in the right direction!
I don't pay much attention to the parts until the post-training camp "game machine" (53 players) is put together.
ReplyDeleteWhat really interests me is how well the Defense progresses, as a whole, under Nolan, a real DC, vs. the kind of defense that made us all sick to our stomachs last year!
I just know it's going to better than last year!
I wouldn't call that bashing... Jt played out of position last year and didn't do it as well as Roth. JP had some of his best seasons with Roth, not so much with JT on the strong side. Both JT and JP have some gas left in the tank but it comes down to what it best for the team, they both were a disruption in their own way. JP was not a team player and his mindset was not one to nuture the younger players. JT, was seemingly a team player, but the only difference between the two is JT does his bidding behind closed doors. JT comes off looking good from the public's perspective but in the coach's office he's still a pain in the ass.
ReplyDeleteBetter to move on and build through the draft. No team is ever going to have every piece of the puzzle in place and it's up to the coaching staff to coach around those weaknesses.
I agree that we can't really evaluate or project anything with the rookies or even some of the vets who will get more opportunities to prove themselves this year at this time. Especially the LBs without pads and hitting. Did anyone know at this time of year what we had in Bryan Cox or Zach Thomas?
ReplyDeleteTin, you think Edds will be looked at at SOLB?
One thing Roth doesn't have is agility playing in space and he's a liability in coverage. But at the LOS he had what you're looking for. I think this team wanted to get more athletic at LB being that passing is such a premium these days.
ReplyDeleteI TOLD YOU deaf/dumb/blind FANG, JUSKIDN!!
ReplyDeleteYou can call me anytime, so I can tell you the "what for", AGAIN JUSKIDN :-P !!
I didn't even look @ the picture, my response was to what was written in the story,
and the replies that considered it a bashing of JT!!
TIN SAID,
ReplyDelete""My point was that we'd have a good year if whomever we line up, they match or eclipse the year that Porter and Roth had together at the same positions.""
I think Edds would play there in certain situations - they are going to have
ReplyDeletea pass rusher in on 3rd down and also need a cover LB who can move around -
think of 3rd and 5 in a big package as opposed to a straight nickel...maybe
3rd and goal from the 3 yard line and a two tight end set...that is an
inside blitz kind of play and they'd need Edds to cover the short inside
zone...
In any event, Edds is not likely to be playing on the weak-side, and I think
ReplyDeleteits too early to say he's definitely going to exclusively play inside.
Good point, especially with Dansby, Crowder and Dobbins manning the inside most of the time, which is what it will be, IMO. Or if Folsom or Spitler make some noise, Edds could be looked at in other roles.
ReplyDeleteIt should be fun to see it all play out.
Personally, I think we could see another 2nd position player drafted rise past the 1st. Edds, is bigger, faster has better coverage skills and is a solid tackler. I think he will gravitate toward the strong side LB spot and may even play himself onto the field ahead of Misi and maybe some of the vets. Edds really looks like a player to me so don't be shocked if he rises very rapidly and finds himself starting before the season is over.
ReplyDeleteThe thought that he has an uphill battle to make the team is even more extremist than the media saying he's a lock to start... The idea that a 2nd round pick has an uphill battle to make the team is laughable really, you don't take a defensive end in the 2nd round, move them to olb and cut them before the season starts, that would make no sense... in reality he would have an uphill battle to not make the team, he'd have to try to get cut, Pat White/Patrick Turner are perfect examples of this and one could argue that they've done their best to get cut and are still here because of the potential of where they were taken. 1st/2nd round picks are essentially locks to at least get a year or 2 to explore their potential before they are cut or put on the practice squad at the risk of being poached.
ReplyDeleteTryptich, your argument is valid but I will argue against it anyway.
ReplyDeleteWhite is/was a quarterback on a team that only had 2 quarterbacks and had
just discovered the Wildcat. He had extreme value. That value was
immediately degraded as soon as the season ended - now we have 3 quality QBs
and White and rediscovered our power running game as well as upgraded the
passing game - the situation from one year to the next couldn't be any
different for White.
Similarly, Patrick Turner came in as a guy with size to compete against
Brandon London as well as security because of Greg Camarillo's injury.
Turner played well at times in camp and London faded away, while Camarillo
was still a risk at the start of the season. A year later, we have an
inexperienced player competing against Brandon Marshall, Camarillo, Bess,
Hartline, as well as early 2010 notables Pruitt and Grice Mullen. Turner
made the roster because we didn't have anyone else and even then he wasn't
on the 45 active roster.
As the team gets better and deeper, there are fewer situations like 2008 and
2009 where a few stragglers make it onto the team. For all we know, the
Tifecta may only take 4 WRs on the 53 this year. They definitely won't take
4 QBs. It's probably less than 5% chance wither of those guys make the team
this year.
Now, look at the LB group - Wake, Anderson, Edds, Misi, Walden, Moses,
McCoy, Dansby, Folsom, Spitler, Dobbins, Crowder. That's 12 guys. I don't
see them keeping more than 9 at the most. To me, the locks are Wake,
Anderson, Dansby, Crowder, Dobbins. That leaves 4 or 5 spots for the
remaining 8. If Moses plays like he did last training camp/pre-season, he's
going to make the team. If Walden proves he's a special teams standout and
serviceable LB, he's going to make the team. If McCoy can run with the big
boys and grasp the scheme, I think he'll make the team based on his speed
and length. That leaves 1 or 2 spots left between Misi, Edds, Folsom, and
Spitler. Would you take Edds or Misi in that situation?
You can't assume just because you were drafted in the 2nd round (let's be
honest, Misi was a reach at 40 anyway), that you automatically are going to
be on the 53, the 45, or even get any playing time, much less push to
start. To do that is to assume that everyone else is standing around and
giving you the spot for free. Misi's stoicism isn't going to win anyone
over, even if it's a cultural thing - it didn't work for Satele and it sure
hasn't done Soilai any favors. Right now I think it's probably about 70%
chance that Misi makes the team, and about 25% that he starts - but that's
just early speculation.
Edds isn't as athletic or as physical as Misi.
ReplyDeleteI may be deaf, dumb and blind, but I sure play a mean pinball...
ReplyDeleteNo matter who starts it's hard to imagine the defense being as poor as it was last year. Some how, some way, they must find a way to get off the field before the other team scores. For what ever the reason was last year we didn't stop very much and the defense could not be counted on. That left Henne throwing the ball way to much, and took the best part of our offense out of the game which was the running game. Mr Obvious is now done flapping his jaws, I mean fingers =-X .
ReplyDeleteIs your argument really based in the idea McCoy and Walden are more likely to make the team than Misi....come on... if that's a valid argument saying he is a lock to start is valid... they are both extreme on opposite sides of the spectrum.
ReplyDeletePlus 70% he makes the team is a far cry from an "uphill battle" which is what I was arguing against, an uphill battle suggests the odds are against him, though i'd tilt the odds even further and say he's a 95% c hance to make the team... I don't think you draft an OLB in the 2nd round unless you are sure you'll have a spot for him, i'd be interested to hear about any 2nd round picks that didn't make their team their first year over the course of the past few years, I can't imagine it'd be many, if any at all. As far as Misi being a reach, perhaps, though we know the Cowboys valued him at 35th overall, so... we weren't the only one's to feel he was an early 2nd round value.
I agree with thinking we'll take 9, i'd imagine the likely linebacker's will be Dansby, Crowder, Dobbins, Wake, Anderson, Misi, Edds, Moses, McCoy.... leaving of the guys you listed, Walden out. 1 of Dobbins/Misi/Edds/McCoy should be able to make an impact on special teams, they talked about special teams a lot with Dobbins and Edds especially... and even if they couldn't, which if they couldn't that would I believe greatly dismay Ireland and Sparano... I still think Misi is still a near lock to make the team and somebody else would pay for those 4 not being able to fill the special teams role..
Are the ENGLISH ever going to learn to speak it?? KID'N !!
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell is "chillax",is that another word like whilst??
Garsh Dernit, Thank heaven's we beat-down the redcoat's, yellow-faced and Hitler, LOL!!!
""For all we know, the
ReplyDeleteTifecta may only take 4 WRs on the 53 this year. They definitely won't take
4 QBs.""
IMHO,
IFFF they only keep 4 WR's, they WILL keep 4 QBs and PW can be an emergency WR,
AND/OR they'll keep 5 RBs and 1 FB...
I STILL believe they'll keep 4 QBs w'CP starting the season on IR,
orrrr perhaps PW coincidentily developes a last minute PUPable problem @ the regime's request...
For nowww, I'm stickin w'my May GUESS/projection of 4 QBs (1 on IR), 5 RBs, 1 FB, and 5 WRs...
I believe it'll be farrr easier/wiser to sneak 1, 2, or even 3 of the young LB's onto the PS,
rather than simply releasing PW, and/or Kory Sheets... JMHO!!!
Knight, not really having seen either of them play, I can only go on what I have read and the reviews on Edds are pretty high, while Misi seems to have earned a Philip Merling type of reputation. We'll see, unfortunately with all the depth in this past draft, OLB was one of the weakest positions at a time when we were in the market for a good one. It's probably the main reason we traded down.
ReplyDeleteHow did Misi earn a Merling reputation and what is a Merling reputation?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2283
ReplyDeletehttp://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/OLB/Koa-Misi.php
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/3/28/1394499/koa-misi-nfl-draft-scouting-report
Merling takes plays off and does not practice well. In other words... Lazy.
Misi is considered a high-motor guy and has already impressed veteran players in OTAs. Merling isn't lazy he's just one of those guys who plays at another level in games. LT was the same way. No I'm not saying Merling is LT. LOL
ReplyDeleteyou bet he isnt LT. one pays underage hookers, the other beats his women. not even close to the same player LOL
ReplyDelete>:o
ReplyDeleteSheets needs to bring it if he has it, and White has one foot on the banana peel already. I don't see either of them with the team next year. They could keep White if Penny goes on the PUP list or IR. I think a roster fight will be for a kickoff, punt returner, and special teams player. P Turner is another one on a slippery slope.
ReplyDeleteThis goes for the threesome above. They either make the team, or they will be gone. We're not going to able to slip onto the PS. If we do that another team will pick them up, before the day is out.
<span>""Sheets needs to bring it if he has it, and White has one foot on the banana peel already. I don't see either of them with the team next year.""</span>
ReplyDelete<span></span>
<span>""I think a roster fight will be for a kickoff, punt returner, and special teams player.""</span>
<span>That's what Sheets is @ this point!! </span>
<span></span>
<span>""We're not going to able to slip onto the PS. If we do that another team will pick them up, before the day is out.""</span>
<span></span>
<span>Neither is PS eligable, and ifff ""another team were to pick them up b/4 the day is out"",</span>
<span>that suggest that YOU believe they ARE NFL material, as do I...</span>
<span>Seems a bit contridictory to me... (WHY NOT as FINS)??</span>
<span></span>
<span>I think PTurner is on the slippriest slope!!</span>
<span>I believe GMullin is ahead of him, b/c everytime DBess has been absent from the slot</span>
<span>our passing game has struggeld greatly!!</span>
<span>Should DBess be an absentee @ anytime (in the past) </span>
<span>had we GMullin a beat wouldn't have been missed... </span>
<span>Though now that we have BMarshall, the above may be somewhat irrelivant??</span>
<span></span>
<span>KR/PR/ST "roster fight" is b/t Sheet's & GMullin IMHO!!</span>
<span>I think we HAVE to keep Sheets, b/c other's can play the slot,(should DBess miss time),</span>
<span>and we HAVE to keep Ronnie and/or Ricky's eventual replacement's on the roster..</span>
<span>Sheets is the future gamebreaker, and Hilliard is the future power-back, IMHO!!! GOFINS!!!</span>
<span></span>
<span>YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAA MIAMI HEAT !!!</span>
<span>Go Marlins, give me/Miami the o10 CHAMPIONSHIP TRIFECTA :-P !!</span>
<span>"To me the biggest worry isn't his size or strength, but his sort of blase attitude about football - he has a history of sounding like he's only doing it because he's good at it, and it's all he knows he's good at. "</span>
ReplyDelete<span></span>
<span>Tin,</span>
<span></span>
<span>Are you basing this off an interview or a scouting report? Just curious, because that is pretty much the opposite of what I've seen and heard about Misi. Attitude, character, and work ethic are at the bottom of my list of concerns with Misi. Patrick makes a good point about his build. He's certainly capable of adding weight and I suspect he'll add a lot of muscle over the next couple of years. My biggest concernn was that Misi was never the top playmaker on Utah's defense. He was very versatile and the coaches took advantage of that. Compare how they used Paul Kruger (Balt. 2nd round pick in 2009) to Misi. My guess is that Misi starts for us within the next year and will be a very solid player that doesn't shine, but helps to make the defense as a whole much better. Would a player like Brandon Graham be a much better fit? Possibly, but we'll have to see.</span>
<span></span>
<span> </span>
I'm not speaking for Tin but what I think he means is Misi isn't a 'fan' of football. He doesn't watch it or follow it, he plays it. I don't have a problem with that if he's passionate about playing the game. That's all we need.
ReplyDelete