Whenever you hear scouts talk about Michigan DE cum NFL OLB, Brandon Graham, they all use the words 'LaMarr Woodley'. Woodley is the only player in NFL history to record four consecutive multi-sack playoff games. He also has 25 sacks in the last two seasons. If Graham is considered to be a carbon copy of Woodley, then why wouldn't we draft him into our 3-4 defense?Really there are only two reasons against it:
- Some say his size is an issue because he's barely 6'1" in cleats. Well, Mike Nolan had success with a much smaller sized Elvis Dumervil last year, and Coach Sparano has shown that he's more in tune with people who make plays as opposed to strict size requirements. If Parcells and Ireland ease up on their historic preferences in favor of getting a proven pass-rusher, then Graham could be on the radar (note: I think he is, because the Dolphins have not mentioned him once).
- The second reason is that it would take the 12th overall pick to get Graham. Pretty much every board I've seen has him graded in the 15th to 25th overall range so he wouldn't be likely to be on the board by the 43rd pick (our 2nd rounder). Some people may think he'd be a reach at 12. LaMarr Woodley was the 46th overall pick in 2007. But his production has surely been that of a top 15 pick. Larry English, another squatty College DE turned NFL OLB, was chosen 16th overall last year by the 3-4 running Chargers.
As a 3 year starter in Michigan blue, Graham won the team MVP award twice (junior & senior year) and was elected as team captain as a Senior. He contributed 55.5 TFLs and 30 sacks.
I watched the kid play the past few years ( being a PSU fan) and I always liked his ability & production. You're getting a productive player from a major program, with no baggage. If he gets 10 sacks every year, we'd consider him to be a great pick. And Tin - I agree that he's solidly on our radar for the very same reason you mentioned - We haven't heard the Trifecta leak word about him at all. This kid is a player. I can't say that for sure about JPP or Morgan. I think they're both better suited as 4/3 DE's. I would probably be the happiest if we pick him in rd 1.
ReplyDeleteI like Graham too. Sometimes a guy is just too good a playmaker to stay fixated on his height or arm length.
ReplyDeleteI know there will always be comparisons to other players but I believe it's extremely tough to project which player will be a great pro or not. For example I watched Lamar Woodley play in college & he was just an excellent & dominant college player. I was very surprised that he wasn't drafted in the first round & I'm not surprised that he turned out to be an outstanding NFL player. However, I have not seen Graham play so I have no opinion one way or the other. I did see Kindle play last year & I also had seen Orakpo play for Texas the year before. IMO--Kindle looked better in college than Orakpo did. I also thought that Orakpo was taken too high & was too stiff to be a good pro BUT he did make the Pro-Bowl as a rookie. Does that mean Kindle will be a good pro??? I think so but there's no way to know until he puts the pads on against other NFL players.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of who we take at whatever position I'm just hoping (praying) that the guy we take with the Number 12 pick (assuming we pick there) will make an immediate impact to this team. Last year I wanted Matthews or Nicks but we got Vontae so it's tough to complain when we got a player who is now our best CB.
Knight,
ReplyDeleteThat's why Woodley wasn't picked until the middle of the 2nd round & all he has done is kick some serious a$$!!! I believe Dumervil was a 2nd round pick too b/c of this. If Graham is really that good or we think a kid like Price is that good, then an inch or two really shouldn't make a difference one way or the other.
Dumervil went in the 4th round. However Dwight Freeney who was also undersized to play DE and he went #11 at 6-1 268. The exact size that Graham is.
ReplyDeleteWHP, I just put up a new page (see the top of page for links right under the
ReplyDeleteTins Fins banner), and it shows the Trifecta's drafts in Miami. 5 of the 6
players chosen in the first 2 rounds have started at some point (most
importantly they started because of merit, not because of emergency). I
think any player taken in the first two rounds have to be heavy contributors
if not starters - though we need a starting NT, OLB, FS, and a receiving
target be it a TE or WR. Unfortunately we only have 2 picks in the first
two rounds, but fortunately the draft is so ridiculously deep, we can get
late 2nd caliber players in the 4th this year.
Graham would be solid, would he be a weakside or strongside guy?
ReplyDeleteTook a look at your list of dolphin picks the past 2 years. Plenty of good players, but last years picks really hurt with the misses. When a team needs every pick and it's FAs to come through just to improve to a .500 record, it shows us fans how bad the team really was.
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping we have solved the Management issue and I think we have. They most certainly look the part of an NFL team, by showing the door to the players that don't meet their expectations. But we difinetly do not need to be missing on that many draft picks. For a team that still has such a lack of over all talent, finding players to fill those openings should have found more success.
We touched on this a little last year. At this time of team construction I'd like to see our first round pick be the starter by the end of the year. I would be even happier to see that pick a starter from day one.
Graham even though a stretch as most think would most likely be that man from day one, and that is much better than a guy like Pat White...
"At this time of team construction I'd like to see our first round pick be
ReplyDeletethe starter by the end of the year. I would be even happier to see that
pick a starter from day one."
Bang on the head there. This will surely be the Dolphins' mentality as
well, which eliminates any offensive linemen, RBs, WRs, TEs, ILBs, DEs, SS,
CB, and QB from the conversation. It also takes out any 'project' players
like Pierre-Paul. That pretty much leaves just Graham and Dan Williams as
the most likely picks with a small possibility to take Dez Bryant *if* the
Dolphins feel he will start from day 1 and be a dominant receiver.
Still, I don't know about the rest of you guys but I feel it in my bones
that the Dolphins are going to try and move up to either get Berry or Suh.
If Suh is still on the board during the 3rd pick (the media speculates the
Rams will take Bradford and Cleveland will trade with Detroit in order to
take Clausen) I think Miami will trade up to get him. If he's off the board
and Berry is still on around pick 6, I think Miami will trade up to get him.
If they don't get a pass-rusher in the draft they will make a big effort to
re-sign Jason Taylor.
Knight,
ReplyDeleteNot sure if you're aware, but there is some troll claiming to be you on the Herald with a mock draft. I rarely check the Herald, but I thought I'd let you know. FYI
Yeah Knight you are attracting quite the crowd! Trying to keep my comments on the Fins but I might have to busy myself with all your trolls!! It's beginning to resemble a game of space invaders...keep shooting!!!
ReplyDeleteI watched Graham play at Michigan and he was every bit as impressive as Foote was. Tackles for loss, rushing the passer, etc. However, Michigan's D sucked the past few years and he and CB Warren were the only bright spots.
ReplyDeleteI would be happy with any player at #12 that has an immedaite impact (i.e. starter). OLB is a serious need so I'm fine with Graham. Enough with this "reach" stuff. According to who? Draft "experts?" I think it all comes down to how the player fits on our team.
If Graham can play Sam OLB and hold his own agains the run and become a threat to get to the QB, then you pair him with Wake and we're good to go!
Knight,
ReplyDeleteDumervil was a 4th??? OMG! Talk about a steal for the Broncos.
Had a few thoughts on ongoing topics...randomly...For one, there is a lot of talk about needing a #1 WR and as someone with no expertise whatsoever I say we don't. All the good passing attacks spread it around, and I've never thought paying kaboodles to one guy especially on a football team was a good idea. Yeah, those #1's (WR or RB) might have their moments, but all it takes is an injury or the right defensive scheme and you're screwed. I can respect Sporano saying he's happy with what we have, and I'm sure that comes with the assumption that there will be continued improvement. Having Sporano admit he didn't utilize P.Turner was kind of confusing, but I'll at least give him props for honesty, he is human. I can barely knock out the 3 S's every morning without a hitch let alone run an NFL team. But I have noticed a pattern with our 'doubled up' draft picks-the later picks always leapfrog the higher ones......Langford over Merling, Thomas over Murphy, Hilliard over Parmele (kidding), Smith over Davis, Hartline over Turner......Maybe a little psychology to light some fires? Show the late rounders they have a chance, and show the early picks to start producing or else!
ReplyDeleteEveryone has submitted their dream scenarios, mine would be to trade Cammy and draft Dickerson. With more time Henne will have a good stable....No B. Marshall or Dez Bryant.
Tins,
ReplyDeleteGreat stuff with the Trifecta's draft link. Next up--lets's get to know a little more about the man behind the Dolphins' avatar in 'About Tinshaker'....LOL!!!
In all seriousness, I agree that if a player is drafted in the first two rounds, his impact must be felt immediately especially with a team that is rebuilding like ours. White was definitely a huge miss but I believe we righted the 2nd round by landing Smith. I agree that this draft is deep & we can still get quality players in the 4th & 5th rounds, I'd like to see us stockpile as many low & mid-level picks as possible by getting rid of players that are not great fits with this team to give us the flexibility to trade up for a specific player or two.
Tins,
ReplyDeleteEither player would be a HUGE boost to this franchise. Obviously Suh more than any other player IMO.
BTW--I'm surprised that you don't have Kindle as part of the discussion with Graham & Dan Williams.
Big Dawwg,
ReplyDeleteFoote??? I believe the comparisons are to Woodley who played at Michigan & I'm pretty sure that Larry Foote (who is a very good player in his own right) played for Michigan State.
Guys, it's the SS's fault. There are easy ways to create blogs with formal subscriptions. The problem is some people can't access them from work or on certain computers so they won't be able to get on. It is what it is.
ReplyDeleteAs for someone posting as me on other sites, I've come across that from time to time over a year or so. It's actually flattering because if you had nothing worthy to say, no one would pay attention. So I must hit a nerve with my witty intellect and elite football and all things Dolphins knowledge. LOL
Tin has me beat though, he posts once on the SS in weeks and he's attacked immediately. I at least get a few in first. LOL
The trifecta's drafts in 08 and 09. I did this as a rebuttal to someone saying the trifecta drafts for needs. After the 1-15 season we had plenty of them. But they built it the right way overall. Everyone can argue a pick here and there, but they've done pretty well so far.
ReplyDelete2008
1. LT Jake Long - I still think he was the best player in that draft and he was at a cornerstone position. Starting LT from day one and two pro bowls; one as an alternate in his rookie season and this past season as the top vote getter. You rebuild on the lines.
2a. DE Philip Merling - He was the best player on the board at #32 with our first of two 2nd round picks. Merling was ranked on a lot of draft sites as a late teens early 20s 1st rounder. You rebuild on the lines.
2b. QB Chad Henne - One of the better QB prospects in the draft and he fit the trifecta criteria for a QB; big guy with a strong arm. Played for a big school, 4 year starter. Successful career at Michigan along with Jake Long. He is now our starting QB. Another cornerstone position.
3. DE Kendall Langford - Played DE in a 3-4 in college and has been a starter from day one. You rebuild on the lines.
4. OG Shawn Muphy - He didn't pan out. You rebuild on the lines.
6a. RB Jalen Parmalee - He didn't pan out. Still with some team maybe Baltimore.
6b. OG Donald Thomas - Starter both years (injured rookie season - out for season in week 1) still working on keeping his job. You rebuild on the lines.
6c. RB Lex Hilliard - Practice Squad first season and proved to be a solid backup and good receiver along with being a good special teams player.
7. DE Lionel Dotson - He's still on the team between PS and the 53 this year. You rebuild on the lines.
2009
1. CB Vontae Davis - He was the best player on the board at #25. He was considered a top 15 pick until rumors about a bad attitude surfaced. It turned out not to be true. He hasn't proven to be anything like that. He was a need position but good corners are also part of the cornerstone of a team. Started most of the season and shows a lot of promise.
2a. CB Sean Smith - A rare big corner 6-3 214 who can run a sub 4.5. He's a matchup corner for today's passing game and big receivers. Cornerstone position.
2b. QB Pat White - He was a wild card pick and one that the trifecta will have to prove was a good choice. We all know what White's skills and shortcomings are. The jury is still out. Other than QB, can he excel at any other position or be a multi-talented scat/slash back? We're gonna find out.
3. WR Patrick Turner - He had a disappointing rookie season seeing no action. Was he a need pick, yes but they're allowed to pick a WR at some point and this was the 3rd round, a point in the draft that a lot of teams feel is a good time to get WRs.
4. WR Brian Hartline - He looks like a gem. 3 receiving TDs and 1 TD rushing on limited opportunities. He proved that he can do a little bit of everything. He could be a starter this season. Again about the need for a WR, see above.
5a. TE John Nalbone - Like Turner he had a very disappointing rookie season seeing no action. I don't think you can say need or not here. We drafted a TE in the 5th round. Big deal!
5b. S Chris Clemons - He looks like he could be a good pick. He showed some promise but he needs more experience. We're not drafting for need here, we're drafting for potential, depth and special teams.
6. OT Andrew Gardener - He has LT ability and could be a solid backup for a few years until he possibly looks to start somewhere else when he's a FA. He has that kind of upside. An injury dropped him from a possible 3rd or 4th round pick to 6th. Cornerstone position. You rebuild on the lines.
7. LB J.D. Folsom - The only LB the trifecta has [...]
Just tryin to help a brotha out.
ReplyDeleteI agree. It ruins things for everybody.
I'm glad Tin can block these idiots, and thankful he has an outlet.
Sooo,basically half of our 18 pks have started,or are starters(Clemons o10),
ReplyDelete(pretty admirable IMHO,as I've stressed redundantly!!)
Guess you could include full-time starting UDFA's DBess & DCarpenter to the plus-side along w'ST's contributors!!
DAMMITT,aren't we ever going to draft 10 superstars in the same year,like every other team finds so easy to do?
THATS HUMOR!!
I'd LUVV to trade-up for SUH,BERRY or take either one of the McC's @12,
otherwise I'm ALL FOR DWilliams,or BGraham (among a few others) @17 after a trade-down w'SF...
And I'd like guaranteed superstars w'ALL the other pks too,HUMOR AGAIN!!! GOFINS!!!
<span>One thing I noticed about Graham was the way Michigan moved him around to find mismatches. When they played a team with a good LT they moved him to LE and when they were playing a team with a good RT they moved him to RE… The scheme itself was great but it makes me wonder how he will do when he is going against the elite LTs in the NFL. He looks like a good player but the scheming makes me a little nervous…</span>
ReplyDeletere: the doubling up - Parmele was actually doing better than Hilliard and
ReplyDeletegot poached off of PS and activated by the Ravens in 2008, so clearly he
beat out Hilliard. Smith over Davis is a bit different because Smith was
making plays in the pre-season - but clearly Vontae played better than him
in the reg season (forget the convoluted stats that Tim Graham and friends
paraded out last month that implied they both were about the same - one of
them had tight coverage and made tackles, and one of them didn't - anyone
who actually watched the games instead of reading a stat book could see
that).
I do agree with the psychology playing a role here, though it's probably not
intentional - the players who show up to camp and impress are almost always
going to win the job - the only example I see where it doesn't necessarily
work that way was with Jake Long - he could've sat out all of the pre-season
and still been the starter on day 1.
WHP,
ReplyDeleteI don't believe Kindle is a top 15 pick. I have him going 25th in my mock.
So it's a good thing I make a comment then don't go back to read the
ReplyDeleteresponses? lol
San Francisco has two 1st round picks - 13th and 17th - I don't see them
ReplyDeletewanting to trade up at all. If anything, they could use one of their 1st's
on a RFA or a straight up player trade.
Tins,
ReplyDeleteSince I haven't seen some of these potential draft picks play, I will defer to you on this. I'd like to see that mock though. IMO--Assuming that they can stay healthy, there are only three "locks" that I've seen play--Suh, Berry, & Spiller.
Although I like Kindle a lot & I think he will be a very good NFL player, I don't consider him a lock.
I honestly find it difficult to believe what Sparano said about our WR's. After Ireland defended Wilson & then released him later was kind of a surprise. IMO--I don't think we have a bad group of WR's but after last season I don't really understand how anyone could be comfortable with Ginn. Perhaps this is some kind of subterfuge for the draft but who is he really kidding??? Although I like Camarillo, Bess, & Hartline I don't think they're keeping many CB's up at nights.
ReplyDeleteAnd when it comes to the mistakes that Sparano admits he made with Turner??? Come on....I'm not buying that. If Turner was good enough to play, Sparano would've played him. If anything I'd like to hear about the mistakes he made in using Pat White in some extremely questionable ways @ questionable times during the game.
Yes. The troll prefers Omar who is a real reporter not a wannabe like you. LOL
ReplyDeleteThe SS is going to sh!t again.
I think SF takes Spiller at #13. They want a RB to spell Gore and to upgrade the return game. Two for one with Spiller and he's an excellent receiver.
ReplyDeleteWHP,
ReplyDeletefunny I just saw tape of NFL Total Access where they did Mayock's draft
ideas for the Dolphins and he chose Williams and Spiller. He said they
wouldn't take a WR because they took Ginn so high and he hasn't panned out,
but the reasons he gave for choosing Spiller are the exact reasons they took
Ginn.
Ultimately, when you watch Ginn's tape versus Spiller's tape it's no
question Spiller is a totally different beast - but ultimately drafting
Spiller would eliminate the need for Ginn.
I swear I'll have the mock up by October! (it would be a lot easier if
teams would stop signing free agents!)
I think Sparano *did *make a mistake by not playing Turner - for one, we're
ReplyDeletea year further along and have no idea where we stand with him, and it wasn't
as if the veteran receivers were lighting things up. They had Turner active
for that one game and they didn't put him in on offense for a single play -
that's just pointless. At the time, you may recall, Sparano said he was
trying to get Turner to the games but it was a numbers thing - well we had
more than one player active that didn't even play, and a couple who could
easily have been benched for one game - like Ginn.
Holy crap, the Jets are going to be on Hard Knocks.....best season ever?
ReplyDeleteI'm HOPING SF attempts to leap-frog innerdivision rival Seat @14,
ReplyDeletew'their pk 17 to 12 giving them back-to-backs(12,13) ahead of an innerdivision rival...
Just hoping they don't use those pks to move into the top 5 or so!!
ANYWAY's that's ONE of my dream scenario's!!!
THANKFULLY this isn't the SS,where about now some smartass wannabe know-it-all would reply
(keep dreaming retard).... LOL!!! GOFINS!!!
I don't know about not playing Turner being a mistake... It's pretty rare for a receiver to play much as a rookie in the NFL. There is a lot more to the game than just being bigger and/or faster than the guy covering you as these most WRs were used to in college. All the corners are good, all the safties are good and there are so many coverages to understand that a lot players aren't ready to play for a couple years. Let's face it, we are not dealing with rocket scientists here and it shows when a guy like Hartline can step in and play while Turner can't touch the field.
ReplyDeleteTurner and even Ginn still have upside and room to develop. Throwing a guy on the field just because he was a 3rd round draft pick doesn't help the team. If the problem with Turner was work ethic and the other players were showing a greater willingness to work, then playing Turner sends a bad message to those guys and the wrong message to Turner. If Turner needs to get tougher and work harder than the boy needs to have a seat on the pine until a little light goes on and he starts showing up.
Tins,
ReplyDeleteI've seen Spiller play since he was a Freshman when he shared the backfield with Davis & Spiller is electric. He's like a one man wrecking crew & I can assure you that the team that gets him is going to get a guy that is flat-out playmaker & potential game breaker.
I saw Ginn play for Ohio State & obviously the raw potential of having a player with that kind of game breaking speed was/is tempting BUT Spiller is definitely a more polished product than Ginn was in college. I agree that they both pose similar threats in the return game BUT the main difference of having Ginn (WR) as opposed to Spiller (RB) is his ability to stretch the field for our offense & force CB's to worry that he could burn them for a big play. This is what is so frustating about Ginn!!! It's not that he can't or hasn't made big plays but the fact that he hasn't fulfilled his potentail like a Steve Smith or a DeSean Jackson who consistently kill defenses with the homerun.
Funny how the fact that Turner had no chances last year show us how little we really know about what happens in the locker room, or behind the mind set of the coaches. I second guess the organization all the time, with absolutly no idea what they are thinking about. *DONT_KNOW*
ReplyDeleteWell, Sporano has preached chemistry especially with the WRs. He wants unique guys who will be hungry enough to rise to the occasion when the gameplan calls for it, but also be O.K. with a support role when the gameplan calls for it. I also think that Henne is his #1 priority right now and with Bess and Camarillo he has 2 guys with experience (compared to our rooks), and Ginn is stupidly fast. For Henne to progress and learn, Sporano is trying to give the guy a little consistency, he's got enough on his plate, and to overload your young QB is THE WORST MISTAKE. Thus Pat White. Sporano wants to baby those guys along as much as possible because that's the surest way to long term success. Now Hartline leapfrogged Turner simply because the guy learned the playbook backwards and forwards and could line up anywhere.
ReplyDeleteSo all in all, Sporano is a badass for putting it on his shoulders, and he never said he regretted drafting Turner (like the SS and Armandorf would have you believe). With Henne having another offseason on top of valuable game experience, this would be the time to put some more on his plate....Pat Turner.
Just because he smokescreened with Gerbil, doesn't mean he's lying about WRs!! That's the beauty of it, they tell the truth as much as they lie! Who knows?
True, but I can see some logic in 'not getting to Turner' right away. As a HC there are so many responsibilities, so many guys to develop and evaluate. Why give your 'rookie' QB (who's learning) someone that green when you have more dependable options? I think after the chaos of the regular season, Sporano does the same review of himself that he runs all his staff and players through, and came to a conclusion that the rest of us already have....play Turner!
ReplyDeleteNow that I've said this we will certainly cut him and sign T.O.
I was joking about Hilliard, he started simply because we lost Parmele. But many players have said Parcells likes his mind games....It is definitely a pattern. I just want to think its psychology because if not it means we should trade off all our high picks and stick to the lower rounds where we excel!! Must I say it....LOL
ReplyDeleteSpiller is also a RB with a much different build than Ginn who is a WR.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Mayock say we won't draft a WR in the 1st because Ginn was drafted by a different regime 3 years ago? That makes no sense.
Tins,
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly my point. For the first 10 weeks of the season Camarillo was not 100%, Bess dropped a bunch of passes, & Ginn, well, let's just say he had some issues. Sparano had a mulitude of opportunities to take a shot with Turner & he didn't. Why??? And now he says that was a mistake??? Of course it was a mistake but that's not the issue. The issue here is why Sparano didn't realize this during a 16 game season??? You draft a guy that has good hands in the 3rd round who is 6'5" & you don't even take a shot with him in the red zone??? It's a simple game of pitch & catch. The QB throws the ball high in the corner of the end zone & the WR goes up for the ball. Come on....Sparano didn't even use him as a decoy! I'm not buying Sparano's bullsh#t on this one. He certainly had no problems continuing to play White which at some point had to make his stomach turn just like ours did.
The only way we are going to know for sure about Turner is to see him play this year. I don't want to hear this reason or that for what happened last year. That was then, this is now. If he's truly ready to take the field on Sundays our coaches are not going to hold him back. Work Turner, work!!!!
Tins,
ReplyDeleteJust when I thought I couldn't hate the Jets more....All it will take is one quote from that gigantic windbag that can't stop eating & can't stop talking sh#t.
Did you know Rex Ryan had lapband surgery this month? Nothing would please
ReplyDeleteme more than to watch him disappear before my very eyes! lol
Patrick,
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the "rocket scientist" refererence. Hartline is a pretty smart kid, obviously a quick learner, & a very hard worker. That doesn't necessarily mean that Turner is not intelligent. Outside of injuries, the biggest reason why college players don't make it in the NFL is their work ethic. Bear in mind, I'm just throwing this out there--Turner might have come in & said to himself I played at USC & I was picked in the 3rd round so they're going to play me & if Hartline didn't come in & work his a$$ off I think he would have been right. Who knows???
Spiller is this year's Percy Harvin.
ReplyDeleteSince when does Mayock make sense?
either that or Sparano will fire himself?
ReplyDeletePatrick,
ReplyDeleteBut I agree with the rest of what you said. Turner better bring everything he has this year or he might not even make the team b/c we're going to draft a WR & Tuna is going to sign a bunch of undrafted FA's who are trying to get a shot.
Call Him what U want Red Dog but
ReplyDeleteHis name is Sparano
Agree with HC Sparano and the Tinshaker
Sparano dropped the ball on Pat Turner
So Tony has to live with 1 WR TD from his #1 WR & collectively 6 WR TDs in all of 2009 and No Playoffs
Clearly this is a huge embarrassment for the organization and HC Tony Sparano
I saw what
I saw
Going back to training camp 2009
Watched Pat Turner make amazing catches
Some big ones (one for 37 yds)right up and over sean the "tall CB" and
catch another &
Right Out Flatten Eric Green and Run Over his decimated body for a TD
Nice to see Sparano come clean on his Big Mistake at not utilizing Pat Turner who can leap 11 feet and has good hands also using his upper body strength to his advantage
Turner is now close to a ripped 230 lbs and had
Pat Turner been with the Brady and Bellicheat
He would already have gained much success
Sparano dropped the ball on Pat Turner
Believe Turner looked good in Camp 2009 and preseason
Leading the team in reception in preseason game
When he was given the Op
Will be following & watching Pat Turner again this summer and beyond
Expect photos
Let's not forget that USC WRs tend to be underachievers in the NFL.
ReplyDeleteThought Parmele worked for United Parcel Service
ReplyDeleteOh Yeah
That was Bernie
LOL
Fang,
ReplyDeleteThat's an excellent point.
Time to break the trend with USC WR Pat Turner on the Miami Dolphins
ReplyDeleteTurner has game and
Dolfans eyeballs will pop and
Say WTF were the coaches thinking last season?
Remeber when all elected officials from Mass a two shits
were Democrats? LOL
Fang
ReplyDeleteLike Ricky Wiliams who was rushing like a beast and
Dan Henning has Ricky throw a pass (Int) from 1st and goal on the 3 yd line
Will be very cool to get Turner updates Home! It seems to me that Sporano admitted he dropped the ball with Turner, all I'm trying to do is see it from his perspective and the reasoning that could have gone into it, which I can agree with the logic. I'm still convinced that mind games come into play at least a little bit....They've sent a clear signal that Turner needs to be focused and at the top of his game, nothing will be handed to him just because he's big. I think he'll come hungry this offseason. Remember, these guys (parcells,sporano) LIVED through T.O., and watched that clown tear apart alot of their hard work (with Jerry pitching in too). And once again, look how they developed Mile Austin......
ReplyDeleteRed Dog, to be fair, the Trifecta did not develop Miles Austin - he
ReplyDeletedeveloped while they were in Miami. They also failed to grab him last year
for a second round pick...it's like they were saving that pick up just to
draft Pat White!
And I don't think anyone has ever accused T.O. of not being a hard worker in
practices. He just had a knack of saying things he shouldn't say - but how
is that different than Jerry Jones or Tony Romo? They obviously don't teach
'no comment' in the Dallas meetings.
But the whole concept of T.O. being a distraction is so overdone - look at
any sport, and any team and nine times out of ten, the star player acts like
he's the bees knees, so when did it become a T.O. only thing? No one ever
says that stuff about Ocho Cinco and he's ten times as distracting as TO,
IMO. In my mind, there's no real issue with these upper-echelon players
being cocky if they continue to back up the talk. A guy like TJ
Houshmanzadeh still talking trash after being a bust in FA is worse to me
than anything (BTW, if housh had stayed in Cinci - they could've been SB
contenders last year).
Exactly Red Dog
ReplyDeleteMiles Austin was my first example of WR development
As well as Jackson
These WRs took 3 years
Problem is all our WRs are #2 guys
Was hard for Trifecta to sit a #2 that did not do much wrong for a rookie
Fact is we still have no #1 WR
Again this year
So in a two WR set
U have Ginn, Hartline, Cam and Turner with Bess in the slot
Same dilemma as last season
Would have traded Ginn and Cam for Marshall (Tired of hearing all the BS character talk)
If we are worried about character should we fire Roniie Brown, Ricky Williams, Jason Ferguson, Will Allen and Tony Mc Daniels. so far ?
However 6.5 Turner also has good hands and is physical
Would be very happy with Marshall Hartline Turner and Bess (and u know they are going to keep Pat White at #5)
Think
I Will be right on Pat Turner
Too bad we are shopping for WRs at the Vatican
Maybe they can also pretend to be a # 1 WR
ps
ReplyDeleteRed Dog
It is Sparano (not Sporano LOL)
did U not see the hint in previous post
Peace
Home
Think sporano is some type of a mold culture ??? :)
ReplyDeleteI'm very late in coming to this party, but back to two days ago-> Graham is my current favorite of the pass-rushing OLBs:)
ReplyDeleteIf you read anything on the SS you'll know that I'm a big fan of Earl Thomas, but my gut is telling me we're going OLB. My best bet is that it's Morgan, but I'm holding out hope for Graham. Just tracked down about as much good and bad footage that I could find on him and I really like his first step. It's explosive and he looks relentless out there. Are there any Michigan fans out there? I wanted to know if he's got an arsenal of moves.
I've seem him most often use a Speed Rush, but I've also seen him go with Joey Porter's favorite (and slowly becoming his only) jerk move to the inside. Graham's also really good at swimming his shoulder under the tackle and maintaining his balance (a la Cam Wake, or if you want to go with a bigger name-> Bruce Smith). It also looks like he's really good with his hands at the point of attack...he hand fights the blockers hands down and then uses his quickness and agility to leverage past him. I have yet to see him really use the bull rush effectively, and I haven't seen him really have anything like a club move or spin move (lots of speed rushers have these as a counter to keep Tackles honest). Any additional info would be appreciated...
Home did you get banned at the SS or just stop going?
ReplyDeleteI'm planning to get to camp this year and when I do I need you to help me get my daughters Ricky shirt signed by him. She's fired up.
I meant to compare Graham to Woodley but Foote is a stud too. All of them are from Michigan.
ReplyDeleteTim Graham, of ESPN.com, reports Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll said he believes Miami Dolphins WR Patrick Turner will become a productive player but needs time to develop and get more comfortable with his situation. Carroll said Turner's development went slow at Southern California but was a great player when he got more comfortable.
ReplyDeleteTins,
ReplyDeleteAlthough I never considered that since Spiller is a legitimate RB if Spiller is in fact "the next Percy Harvin" then forget all this talk of OLB, FS, & NT. Like I said yesterday, I really hate when these analysts make comparisons to players that are successful in the NFL since it's rarely accurate. For example if there is a concensus in an NFL organization that is picking from 5-11 thinks that Brandon Graham is the really the next Lamar Woodley then they're either drafting on pure need or they're insane to not draft him. If I really believed that then after Suh & maybe Berry how can you pass on a player that is going to be one of the best OLB's in football???
Knight,
ReplyDeleteI don't think we'll draft a WR in the first round b/c Bryant scares the hell out of me. Unless the Trifecta knows differently I really can't see us taking him.
Carroll wouldn't shutup about Turner at the Senior Bowl a year ago-> he could have been just posturing a player that needed a little publicity, but out of all the USC players that were there he said he thought that Turner would be the one turning heads.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a lot of faith, but I still have a little.
Tins,
ReplyDeleteOf course. I live in NYC. It's front page news here. No joke.
Tins,
ReplyDeleteDwayne Jarret??? Mike Williams??? Kerry Colbert??? Actually they tend to suck. And Keyshawn was one of the most overrated WR's I can remember. I'm not saying he wasn't a good WR but he's certainly not as good as he thought he was.
However, the other Steve Smith on the Giants actually overachieved.
Krill, right click ion the silouhette where you enter a post and enter your avatar either through my computer or with gravitar whichever works for you.
ReplyDeleteI mean a regular left click there.
ReplyDeleteKnight,
ReplyDeleteLet's see if Carroll is willing to put his money where his mouth is....What round draft pick is he offering us??? LMAO!!!
LOL, I thought you were making a play on the fact that I called him a badass for saying "I screwed up". I'm happy as long as I don't call him Soprano....Thanks, I will correct that (time to fire my proofreader!)
ReplyDeleteTesting...
ReplyDeleteThey picked him, right? And they kept him on the bench for a year while he developed....They had SOME hand in it! But I hear 'ya on PW, to think we could have had Austin, and not have had to watch nervousness in its human form......that does get me irked. But I'm hoping to see something out of both guys this year, we'll see!
ReplyDeleteMy only concern with Marshall is Miami nightlife. We'll wish we had Ginn and Cammy when Marshall self-destructs halfway through the season. Seeing him kicking balls away in practice to F with the coaches and ballboys, on top of multiple domestic issues, that guy is way more risk than reward. But on that note I'm with you on BS character talk, and shopping at the Vatican (LOL). Why couldn't we try to pry away one of the Colts' WRs? They have 8 billion of them and want big OL (like Smiley), and they aren't pulling any crap like Marshall...
ReplyDeleteT.O. the distraction isn't overdone!! C'mon, Parcells wouldn't even call the guy by his name! The Bills paid big bucks for him when NOBODY would touch him. Trent Edwards wasn't exactly stoked when the guy showed up! But I will agree that OchoStinko gets a free pass compared to T.O.
ReplyDeleteI'm giving Turner another year. Most WRs take awhile to develop but I wish he could have seen time in the last game or somewhere along the season, even if just for a few plays.
ReplyDeleteI'm also giving Pat White another year but I'm guessing he won't cut it as a QB unless something big happens. Oh well, they took a shot and missed.
Red Dog,
ReplyDeleteMiles Austin was undrafted and did not sit on the bench, he was used
exclusively as a special teams guy and return specialist - he was one of the
best returners in the league for his first two years. It wasn't until the
Trifecta left that he got used on offense. If you want to give the Trifecta
credit for developing him, that's fine, but I think it's unfair. They
refused to use him as a wide-out, and they refused to pick him up as a RFA -
they obviously didn't think much of him as a WR.
That brings up the question of if the Colts WRs are that good or if they're
ReplyDeletea product of the system?
Son of a dirty little wench
ReplyDeleteBeen getting comments moderated recently
So if they do post
They are
Too late
Called Omar out on e-mail
and listed my predictions of players and games and his (which were over 75 % dead wrong)
He still thinks sean smith won the Patriots game for the Dolphins and saved our season
Tried 2 comments over a week ago and they were moderated on one blog
So stopped trying
If I wanted to bypass the system
Would only take a couple minutes
with other e-mail and IP (It`s not rocket science)
posted a little on Ethan Skolniks blog
Think SS needs writer/blogger that likes and really has a feel for the team (not Omar or the baseball guy)
There has got to be someone who gets excited about Dolphins football out there (not excited about Wilford and Smith or finally latches on to Smiley in his eighth year with a mangled leg/ankle and shoulder)
Last year the SS dropped us at the beginning of the season when O claimed he had the swine flu
So he could not even blog from his bed and missed a week at the start of the season and then they ruined the blog right before and through out the Pro & Super Bowl with the whole IT Dept communication disaster
Now It is all about trying to be a radio personality
SOASOAS
My son is more independent now
So my days of being Home (pun intended) will thankfully be much less
Will be at Dolphin Camp 2010 but
cannot predict now how often will attend (prob at least 8-12 times)
Ricky Williams Signature can be obtained for your daughter
Did not know that, that's why I tune in over here....I'm just worry I'm getting way too smart way too quickly....but I'm sure you guys will keep me level headed!
ReplyDeleteWell now I can see you're frustration with the Trifecta concerning WRs....
Two words....Pey...Ton
ReplyDeleteMan
ReplyDeleteDid I Pound the table last year for Percy Harvin
Again was the minority
People on the SS board telling me he would not be any good in the NFL LMAO
He was picked before Our first Pick but
Dont think the Dolphins were looking at him anyway
Harvin makes Ginn look like a Fairy
Check out Harvins Bench press reps with 225 LBs for a WR
Big Dawgg
ReplyDeleteThere was no time for Turner to play last year
Ted Ginn was in his year #3
The "Breakout" year
;) ROTFLMAO
Home, the Dolphins did have Harvin in for a private workout last year, so
ReplyDeletethey probably were interested.
Tin are you trying to point out that the Trifecta are NOT all that most fans make them out to be ? I think so... :)
ReplyDeleteAh, Home I can't think of anyone better to call me a "dirty little wench", warms my heart.
ReplyDeletePaulie's been lookin for ya. He said "if you need anyting anyting at all T it's done."
Happy to hear about your son, give him my best.
Omar does get to be somewhat close-minded and what distant , but the guys in the forum are the fun part, the real trolls excluded.
I'll come here more often to keep up with you, thanks Tin you do a terriffic job, much appreciated.
Home, Marshall don't look like it's happenin, I'm starting to believe Dez might.
WHP, but if he's right maybe Turner is just that kind of guy. He's still young and everyone is different. He has the size/speed ratio at 6-5 225 4.6 range. He's pretty athletic and maybe he's a late bloomer. Vincent Jackson had 3 catches his rookie season. He's now an elite WR.
ReplyDeleteThough I view Turner as more of a Marques Colston. Jackson is a bit faster.
Mocksters are goofy! They reach for need and make their boards accordingly when there are teams who consistently take BPA every year and they usually go to the playoffs on a regular basis. LOL
ReplyDeleteWith 10 picks, take the BPA 1st thru 4th in a deep draft and then you can add depth at need positions in the 6th and 7th rounds with 3 picks in each round. This is a perfect scenario for the Dolphins. We already have a good young core, now add some more. 8-)
Dirty little wench is a Son of a son of a sailor (pirate reference)
ReplyDeleteI spent a few years in the islands and lived on large motor yacht once docked next to Jimmy Buffet for a week in the Bahamas while he was residing on large sail yacht
That was when he wrote the song "Perrier Blues"
Point is in that world "dirty little wenches" and rum are good things
Gave my opinion on the the draft pick being Dan Williams over 2 months ago on SS
Now look what has happened LOL
As far as Omar
He simply has no pulse on my team and is faking it
Never did
Was hoping he would have moved on by now
Will post there before or after the draft
U will know it is me
Not as interested in most poster thoughts there only use the blog as a stage for my insight & laughs
As far as Marshall
Never really thought the old school guys would get this #1 WR who will only get better in warm weather
They will be too busy telling U about morals while
Smoking cigars
Swearing
playing poker and
waiting for the dancing girls to arrive
and deciding who will bail McDaniels
I mean Ferguson
I mean Will Allen
I mean Ricky
I mean Ronnie Brown OUT OF JAIL
Do not think Trifecta even looks at any WRs in the draft
Can only bode well for Pat Turner and perhaps open things up for Hartline & Teddy(Teddy cannot do worse as WR, can he LOL)
Shake it Easy
No Worries
Home
Son
ReplyDeletePosted back at U
Just got back In
Will post more
If things Heat Up
For Now
On walk about at South Florida beaches in mornings & early afternoons
Air Temp in the 80s
Water Temp about 70 still a bit cool for longer swims but
U cannot have It all (Unless U R the NY Jets and get Brandon Marshall ..uh oh, Yikes)
Peace, Love & Birth Control ;)
Home
09 Philly was 10th in rec yrdg 4380,(thanx to DeSean Jackson)..
ReplyDeleteOUR 09 FINS were 21st w'3396,(I think we need a BIG-TIME playmaker)..
I LIKE OUR cast,but IMHO their each carried in the rotation ONE-SLOT above their PRESENT ability,
(ie; TG's really a 2 ply'n as a 1, DBess is really a 3 ply'n as a 1 or 2 from the slot,no TRUE RZ threat etc,etc)..
I'm hoping to find a TRUE #1 so that TG can explode minus double coverage as a 2,
while Hartline, Bess split 3&4 option's,(leaving PT & Cammarillo fighting @5,6)..
THAT'D be an IMPRESSIVE CAST of WR's !!!
One way or another ,we have to make-up that 1000 yrds or so!!
Whether it come's from a thousand yrd #1 WR or 200 each from the present corp's..
I'm w'ya on Henne and the 5 being farrr more productive in o10 simply due to familiarity and maturity,
shoot had it not been for all the redzone/various short field drive ending t.o's last yr
OUR present cast may have made up a few hundred of that 1000 already,
and @least a few hundred more will be gained in o10 b/c of better continuity!!
MAYBE PTURNER CAN offer us 400 yrds more than Camarillo equating to the 1000 needed to approach TOP 10 TEAM REC YRDG?? (PRESENTLY/PERSONALLY,I DOUBT-IT!!)
STILL THINK it'd be much easier to achieve w'a force/MR DOES EVERYTHING opposite TG,
in order to put SOMEEE FEAR into the DBack's approach,while giving TG some space(single coverage),
as well as the rest of the group being able to excel @ their PROPER PECKING ORDER as receivers,
while also opening-up the run game!!
I'm STILLL SERIOUSLY considering Dez Bryant,(IF it were my choice),
but I'd be OK with DeMarius Thomas (Geotech)in the 2nd, Eric Decker (Minn)in 3 or 4,
or even DGettis, JWebb, SLong,or MEasley Mid-Saturday since we presently have early D priorities!! GOFINS!!
PS,I've been on HENNE's wagon since the get-go,(had him on MY FIN DRAFT BOARD right where we got him),
and his on field POISE from day-one display's to me that HE HAS the ""IT"" factor,and ALL the tools!!!
PLEASEEEE!!!!
ReplyDeleteYOUUU USED TO SAY,
IFFF TUNA never again does anything right,you'll @theLEAST alway's RESPECT him for the SPARANO hire!!!
9 or so of 18 DRAFT PKS ARE CURRENTLY STARTERS,and that doesn't include ALL the FA STARTERS!!!
He INHERITED one of THE WORST TEAMS IN FOOTBALL HISTORY,and has ALREADY replaced more than half of the starting roster w'QUALITY LONGTERM/EVENTUAL PROBOWL GYZ,(IN ONLY TWO YRS)!!!!
YESS,mistakes HAVE TO/WILL be made along the way!!
BWalsh had a draft that conjured-up some 7 probowlers,but mannn he messed-up the remaining pks,
HOW DARE HE!!!
You act like they've been here a decade,never did anything right, and should have already won the SB!! *DONT_KNOW*
NOT EVERY MOVE WORKS OUT AS INTENDED,but @LEAST their intention's are in the right place,
(LONG-TERM POWERHOUSE),they're farrr more patient than the fan's,and as you suggested
they KNOW farrr more than us as to what they have,and where they're headed!!! GET OFF THEIR BACK!!
Sounds good to me
ReplyDeleteKnight from Jersey
ReplyDeletePlease stop stealing my material LOL
I made the comparison of Turner vs Colston last year on at least 3 dif posts including height, weight and body type
Very similar
Turner being just a bit taller, heavier, stronger and more physical at a younger age
only thing dif is now Colston has a SB ring
Knight from New Jersey
U can back and steal my Greg Olsen at Tight End again instead
Olsen could help us tremendously
Esp if we make no WR move
which looks like the case
UM Greg Olsen is a great Receiver and would help break down the opposing defenses coverage
helping out our other Receivers
Great Big Target for Henne
Much better hands and size than Anthony Fasano from NJ
Go Dolphins!
Being that I've never seen you post before how could anyone steal from you? That said your comparison isn't anything special, it's just a general comparison. Colston made an immediate impact and Turner didn't so we don't even know if that's accurate. Oh yeah... get over yourself.
ReplyDeleteThe Turner arguments are pretty ridiculous if you think about... No team in the NFL is going to sit a player who can help them win football games. It's obvious that Turner was not the same player once the pads went on. I heard Home and Omar rave about him at the beginning of camp, but once the hitting started he faded out. This is fairly common with WRs, one good shot across the middle by an NFL safety and a lot of guys fold up. I remember this happening with Chambers... He took a big hit in a game, I don't remember which but he was never the same afterwards. Let's face it, it's a rare individual who take those types of hits and not think twice about going back for more. From what I heard Turner was even having trouble getting off the line in press coverage.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think Sparano is going to say? Turner sux and I'm going to keep him on the bench until I cut him? No Sparano is going to say Turner should have been on the field because he needs Turner to regain his confidence. Unfortunately if Turner does not like contact it may never get fixed because a pussy does not all the sudden turn into Mike Tyson and even Iron Mike was never the same after he got his bell rung.
Patrick, that's not exactly right. For one, it's recently become common knowledge that Patrick Turner was injured at some point during the preseason and that limited him-> I'm hopeful that is a potential reason why he couldn't gain separation in the Preseason games I watched.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, Turner was great in the drills, but when it came to the playbook and running plays he was VERY raw apparently, and was slow to pick it up. I think it's reassuring that Pete Caroll mentioned that he was a slow learner at USC, but once he got it he was a great asset. It takes time for a lot of rookies. I'm hopeful that we see some playing time from him this year, but I'm not expecting anything truly productive until years 3 and 4 (provided they feel he's a good investment worthy of making the cut). I'm not giving up on the kid yet...
Patrick,
ReplyDeleteFor the record--The reason why Tyson got beat by Buster Douglas & was never the same fighter was b/c he started using drugs. If you don't believe me or Mike Tyson himself watch the fight again & you tell me if he looked like the same fighter.
Knight,
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping you're right.
Tyson didn't train well for that fight either. That was the point in his career where he was no longer the student of the fight game and like you said started down a bad path with drugs etc.
ReplyDeleteThat said, Tyson should have actually won the fight earlier, he knocked Buster Douglas down (out) but he got like a 14 second count. Makes you wonder about boxing and its legitimacy. :-$
Knight,
ReplyDeleteBoxing is defintely sketchy but I'd still love to see Manny Pacquaio fight Mayweather.
Come on guys, Tyson was never the same... I'm sure there were drugs and all sorts of other distractions but once he lost his moxie he was done.
ReplyDeleteYesterday I couldn't call Turner stupid and today I can't call him a pussy? I know it's just because Tony Sparano didn't like the way he cut his freaking hair! If the guy could play he would've been on the field. He may have been injured but if he was going to ride the pine all year why not put him on IR? It doesn't add up.