The wide receiver situation in Miami is a little different this year. In 2008, we had a slew of no-names and unproven bodies. In 2009 the addition of two draftees in Brian Hartline and Patrick Turner added into the mix of a high-expectation 3rd year Ted Ginn Jr, and the proven but injured Greg Camarillo and the upstart Davone Bess to go with all the undrafted free agents and developmental players like Anthony Armstrong, Brandon London, etc.
This year we have a decidedly different first look.
We have a #1 WR in Brandon Marshall - you can't even use the word 'upgrade' here as it's sort of like trading in a standard definition television for an IMAX theater.
We have the fast growth and experienced sophomore player in Brian Hartline.
We have the year-separated-from-injury Camarillo. Though is butt may be a bit sore after his ridiculous catch vs Atlanta last year, his knee should be fine by now.
We have the 3rd year slot guy in Davone Bess, who has led the team in catches the past two seasons.
And we have 3 developmental players in Julius Pruitt, Taurus Johnson, and Patrick Turner - all three have significant Dolphins scout team experience under their belts.
Add to the 7 above, the large target, Roberto Wallace, the speedy Marlon Moore, and the reliable Ryan Grice-Mullen, and you see a very definite plan here as far as competition and positioning goes:
You have your big targets:
Brandon Marshall: 6'4", 230 lbs
Patrick Turner: 6'5", 220 lbs
Roberto Wallace: 6'4", 225 lbs
You have your shifty slot guys:
Davone Bess: 5'10", 190 lbs
Ryan Grice-Mullen: 5'11", 180 lbs
Marlon Moore: 6'00", 190 lbs
You have your reliable intermediate guys:
Brian Hartline: 6'2", 186 lbs
Greg Camarillo: 6'1", 190 lbs
Taurus Johnson: 6'1", 205 lbs
Julius Pruitt: 6'2", 206 lbs
Due to need, it's likely that Miami will end up with 6 WRs on the team (it seems obvious to me they are trying to lower the number of offensive linemen they will need to keep and they will likely reduce the number of defensive backs, thus allowing for an extra WR and extra LB - keep in mind they will likely cut one once Jason Ferguson is eligible to return).
I would expect them to keep only one of the smaller receivers as an intermediate player could also play the slot, or they could line up with fewer 3 WR formations should, say Bess, go down to injury. And I don't see more than 2 of the bigger targets being kept.
With that in mind, here are some possible scenarios for opening day 2010:
SCENARIO 1:
SCENARIO 2:
SCENARIO 3:
SCENARIO 4:
Tin,
ReplyDeleteLMAO at number 4!
Marshall and Hartline on the outside with Bess as the slot guy. Camarillo will rotate with Hartline and Bess. Turner (if he makes it) will be a Red Zone target and occasionally work the outside. Grice-Mullin in there somewhere...maybe.
Tin, I agree that we are looking to cut down on some roster spots like the OL and DL. Last year we kept 9 OL and 8 DL and this year I think it will be 8 OL and 7 DL. But I do not think the extra spots will be at the WR position. It will be to keep 4 QBs and a return man, even though I know you and many others hate the idea of keeping 4 QBs and don't believe it.
ReplyDeleteThe only way we keep 6 WRs is because the 6th one is key on special teams like a return man. Other than that I say 5 WR and 4 on game day. A return man could be a DB so maybe we keep 10 for that. A.J. Wallace could be a sleeper as a return man.
"We have the 3rd year slot guy in Davone Bess, who has led the team in catches the past seasons."
What are we trying to say here? LOL
Scenario #4 just got my day off to a great start. Freakin hilarious.
ReplyDeleteTin, i think that you left out a "category" of WR in your lists, which is the speedy/stretch the feild WR, which we definitely don't have right now. I certainly hope that one of the UFAs can fill that role but i doubt it. As much as Ginn made me insane with frustration, i really thought that we needed that deep threat on the other side of Marshall to REALLY open up the run game.
Tin, is Turner allowed to go to the practice squad? I'm not sure if the rule is "X" games on the active roster or "X" of actual playing experience. Just to clarify, what is the rule for paractice squad players?
ReplyDeleteHartline can stretch the field. He's the only one besides Ginn who caught any deep balls and he lead the team in ypc with 16.3. Why he keeps getting lumped in with Bess and Camarillo I don't know. He's much faster than both of them and he's got way more upside than both of them.
ReplyDeleteI agree - I didn't want to trade Ginn once we got Marshall, but it happened
ReplyDeletethe next day.
I do think Hartline and Taurus Johnson have some abilities to stretch the
field, but ultimately we are a run first team and that should keep back of
the defense sparse for the occasional deep throw. Good play-calling can
open up the deep ball just as well if not better than straightline speed
can, though it definitely helps.
As far as my early final 53 projection, I have 9 o-lineman/7 d-lineman. But I also have us only taking 5 wr's on the 53 man roster putting others on the practice squad(partly because I think we'll take 3 te's/9 lb's)... we'll see.
ReplyDeletePS players have to have fewer than 9 games of active duty and less than 3
ReplyDeleteyears of NFL eligibility
I think we'll see more standard pro sets with 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB and 1 FB this year because of Marshall. This will allow us more play-action passing and if they double Marshall, Hartline will have some opportunities to make them pay. Marshall will open up the offense because if they don't double him, he'll catch 10-12 passes per game.
ReplyDeleteFinally a competent artcle about Henne vs Sanchless
ReplyDeletehttp://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/13621/scouts-inc-sanchez-or-henne
<span>Ginn caught deep balls?
ReplyDeleteLet's be honest... Brian Hartline was our deep threat last year, Ginn was just a distraction. A supposed deep threat with only 1 catch for 40+ yards and 3 for 20+... That is not a deep threat.... That's just a fast guy disgracing the label "deep threat".</span>
While Hartline doesn't have elite Ginn-type speed, i agree that he runs great routes and does seem to have the ability to get open on deep routes. That said, i don't think that he scares DBs and safeties enough to play him soft. Maybe that will happen this year. I do predict that Hartline is going to have a monster year. Marshall is going to draw so much coverage that Brian is going to have a lot of open space to play with.
ReplyDeleteTaurus Johnson on the other hand, has serious speed. If he hands to match, it could be just what we need.
nice one, I admit I've been avoiding ESPN since Graham's really been off the past few weeks.
ReplyDeleteHey, i didn't say he caught anything, i just said he was fast. Especially in the direction of the sidelines.
ReplyDeleteNice article...honest.
ReplyDeletemaybe they should sign Usain Bolt... he may even be cheaper and his hands couldn't be any worse....
ReplyDeleteYeah and he never explained why he thought Sanchless was better other then say he played better in the playoffs when he barely passed te ball.It's a nice article by Matt Williamson he actually explained why he thought Henne wass better.
ReplyDeleteKula,
ReplyDeleteTim is correct. Hartline is going to be even more of a threat this year. He will play many 2 WR sets on the opposite side (or lined up next to) Marshall. After the 3rd or 4th game with him showing alot of success, DB's will respect him more and play him softer.
Good, let the DBs not respect Hartline. That's what I'm hoping for. LOL
ReplyDeleteHow many games does Pat White have? Probably too many for us to move him to the PS.
ReplyDeleteI wonder who will get wacked when Fergie comes back? Is he included in your DL totals?
ReplyDeleteTryp, I said Hartline and Ginn were the only ones to catch deep passes. Okay Bess had one. My point was our WRs rarely got deep and made plays down the field. Hartline was the only one to show it consistently in limited opportunities and he was by far our best run after the catch WR.
ReplyDeleteIt will be interesting to see how much muscle weight Hartline put on during the off-season conditioning program. I'm guessing about 10-15 pounds. This would be great as long as it doesn't slow his speed down.
ReplyDeletehe played in every game i believe - he's definitely not eligible for the PS
ReplyDeleteSo yes?
ReplyDeleteThat's why i believe we'll start with 6 WRs and cut down to 5 to allow Ferguson back on the roster. Keep in mind, that a WR like Grice-Mullen, Johnson, Pruitt, Moore, Wallace and maybe even Turner would still retain their PS eligibility if they were demoted at that point.
ReplyDeleteBy then it's almost assured at least someone from the 53 will be on IR... even if it's just someone at the very back. So whoever gets whacked may be nobody that actually deserved a spot on the roster.
ReplyDeleteI stick by my belief from last year that Hartline is more than 185 and was playing close to 195 at the end of the year - he was visibly bigger in week 15 than he was in week 1 - in fact, he may have been taking HGH!!
ReplyDeleteI recall hearing in an interview that was one of Hartline's goals this offseason was to bulk up and add more muscle. Here's hoping he doesn't slow himself down by bulking up too much.
ReplyDeleteHartline said his main focus in the offseason was to add strength and size so he could be more physical with DBs.
ReplyDeleteTin, Hartline was working out every week between week 1 and week 15 so you can get bigger and put on 10 lbs. without HGH.
so wait... being a body builder doesn't make one a better wr!?!?!? *goes to give David Boston a call over this news*
ReplyDeleteIt's the shoes!!! Hartline wears those ugly black shoes that make him look slow. He is not slow and he has what they like to call "football speed." Running 40s in shorts does not always project to how well a player runs on the field in uniform. We can always go back to Jerry Rice running a 4.6 40 to see what a folly 40 times can be. They are an indicator but performance on the field should always be taken over stopwatch times in shorts.
ReplyDeleteTeams were not afraid of to man cover Ginn because he could not get off the line well and he was as likely to drop the ball as catch it. This year teams will have to cheat the secondary toward Marshall, once that happens, Hartline will see opportunities deep and Bess will find a lot more holes open in the secondary. While Ginn's flat out speed may have been an asset, he let his team mates down too many times and based on performace alone he would have been the 5th receiver on this team.
A 5th round pick for a 5th receiver, regardless of where he was drafted is a good deal.
with Scenario 4 and this "<span> you can't even use the word 'upgrade' here as it's sort of like trading in a standard definition television for an IMAX theater." I actually LOLed...</span>
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice to see him dominate DB's at the LOS and get off to a quick route. Not to mention better blocking in the run game.
ReplyDeleteSince Hartline is no longer a rookie, perhaps the zebras will throw more interference/holding flags on the DB's covering him.
ReplyDeleteNot like last year! He was constantly interfered with...lots of non-calls.
Hartline reminds me a bit of Eddie McCaffrey with a bit more pace. So far, he's been reliable, tough, gets open, holds onto the ball and even gets YACs. If he carries on developing as he did in year 1, we might just have a very strong receiving corps this year. I see scenario 1 as the most likely, but Camarillo should see some playing time as he's also clutch. We may even see the odd 4 receiver set this year? Teams will expect us to run, so expect the unexpected.
ReplyDeleteAs for scenario 4, did I miss the press conference where we drafted Pat White and his cloned family? ;)
Hartline definitely has football speed and I could care less what his 40 time is. On the field he outruns defenders to the 1st down marker and on that 31 TD run on the end around he outran them to the endzone. He's slippery in the open field and he doesn't waste any time getting going.
ReplyDeleteI do remember a few of those against him that were not called.
ReplyDeleteTinshaker,
ReplyDeleteYou're right about Graham. What the hell happened to him??? He used to be the only ESPN writer that I liked now it's Williamson. I think Graham has let one of his kids write the AFC East blog.
First off, Henne was just as much as a rookie starter as Sanchez was last year. In fact Sanchez was groomed to be the starter since the day they drafted him so he got even more reps than Henne did leading up to the season. I prefer everything about Henne & it's not even close. Henne was even better than I expected last season & as long as we continue to protect him, we will finally have our franchise QB. Case closed!!!!
Tryptich,
ReplyDeleteExactly. Between the RB's, the WR's, & TE's that start the season on the 53 man roster, I'd say it's a safe bet that there will be more than one injury by the time Ferguson comes back.
I'm very curious to see how Turner looks when OTA's begin.
Tryptich,
ReplyDeleteI'm with you. Marvin Harrison wasn't exactly bulging out of his uniform & no DB wanted to cover him. Although Hartline is no Marvin Harrison, if he's quick & crafty enough he'll get open.
Tim,
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I'm not worried about Hartline going into this season. It's Turner who has all the question marks.
Can you f**king believe it? Cushing kept the RotY award after the revote.
ReplyDeleteWhat really irks me about the Sanchez-Henne question isn't that people underrate Henne but that people overlook how often Sanchez sucked last year. I mean, 30 turnovers in 16 games is leading your team to the playoffs? He played well again the Fins but was atrocious in many other games.
LOL, I think Hartline had more offensive PI calls not called than defensive ones. He got lucky a few times.
ReplyDelete<span><span> <span> </span> <span>Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette changed his AP vote from Byrd to Cushing in the ROY re-vote...WTF is that about? He decided to vote for Cushing AFTER the scandal?
ReplyDelete</span></span></span>
That's true too but he got held or interfered with more. I think his quickness caught some DBs off-guard and they clutched and grabbed to not get beat. I remember a few of them being really bad non-calls. I do remember with Hartline that was obviously on him by the sideline.
ReplyDeletewow
ReplyDeletehttp://yepyep.gibbs12.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/cushing_steroids.jpg
hahahaha
ReplyDeletelmao... I guess he didn't think they had a right to change who the winner was.
ReplyDeleteTurner has to step it up and earn some playing time or I think he's gone this year. It's one thing to develop a player, it's another when the guy can't earn a role to get on the field. That's a wasted roster spot.
ReplyDeleteSooo in scenario 4, does that mean PW's finally goin to be wearing a # in the teens??? (Like we insisted in 09!!)
ReplyDeleteHe'd of thrown sooo much better in o9 iff he were wearing a receivers number,
b/c the opponent's would have never thought he'd actually have an attempt from the WR position,
while we wouldn't have expected such precise QB accuracy from all those non-attempts...
Sportin a WR # in this TC, he may come to realize where the balls are supposed to be targeted?? =-O
I think it's time to just give Pat White #19 and make it official.
ReplyDeleteI'd think the 6th WR would be Grice-Mullin (KR duties),
ReplyDeletewhile giving us the not miss a beat option should something happen to DBESS!!!
Then we'd have an almost as good as the starter
or simular to his abilities option @ the number 2 & 3 WR position's,(a good thing)!!
The 1 never has an equal, so we'd be as well off as we could hope @ this time,
other than having a true 1 on both sides, and that doesn't exist in the league,
so we're suddenly sittin pretty!!!
BRANDON MARSHALL TOP 3 WR LEAGUE-WIDE ON THE MIAMI DOLPHINS, GOTTA LOVE-IT!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!!
Whoaaa .... That WAS a WHITE OUT!!! ... didn't see that one coming!!
ReplyDeleteI have a hunch Camrillo is our 2nd best receiver & can be Welker-esque.
Love me some Bess, but just have a hunch Camarillo has more talent ... good position to be in!!
13kvFINS, I see Marshall catching between 75-85 passes in our offense. He will get doubled often and open it up for others. I don't think he'll catch 100 here but I don't want to see that because that means nobody else is doing anything.
ReplyDelete80-1,100 13.75 10TD would be awesome. Hartline 55-825 15.0 5+TD would be awesome as well. LOL
This way we could push Bess down to 35-40 catches where he should be as a 1st down specialist on 3rd down.
Either 19 or 68 !!
ReplyDelete""80-1,100 13.75 10TD would be awesome. Hartline 55-825 15.0 5+TD would be awesome as well.""
ReplyDeleteSounds like Danny & the Marks Brothers numbers!!! What's it been 20 yrs??? GOTTA LOVE IT,WOOHOO!!
Well the Marks Brothers were 1,300 yards a piece in 1984. LOL
ReplyDeleteTin , i saw your little sinking in the swamp of jersey comment. BACK STABBER !! :-P
ReplyDeleteCorrect. To many to place him on the PS, but not enough to stop him from being shipped to the Kansas City Royals...
ReplyDeleteHis number should match his skill. So he will be wearing this number 00
ReplyDeleteI was being somewhat realistic and referring to the later stages of their careers, ""20"" or so yrs ago,
ReplyDelete(say 89 or so where their numbers were somewhat simular to o10s BMarshall/BHartline projections)..
Not the Marks Brothers career year numbers that could never be had again w'out a number 13!!!
Maybe in o11 they can go after that trio's 91 numbers 1085,1053 & 70 each, unlikely w'BP!!!
It's nice to know though that barring catastrophe we'll have one 1 thousand yard guy!!!
Alls I was really sayin was that we have the best combination of WR/dpth since that duo,and
THE MOST PHYSICALLY INTIMIDATING WR WITH PROVEN SUPERSTAR SKILLS EVER IN FINS HISTORY!!!
Fryer/Ingram/OJ had some nice yrs, but they had #13,Hopefully CH becomes the 2nd best QB in FIN history!
kv13, You're forgetting a HOF guy named Paul Warfield... His numbers can never match the threat he was on the field. When you have two 1000 yard rushers and a guy who can take it to the house at any moment that's what leads to undefeated seasons. This team is beginning to remind me more of the 70's Dolphins rather than the Marino era Dolphins.
ReplyDeleteTin, I have to go with your number 1 scenario... I do like Camarillo a lot but Bess has a knack for finding open spaces in the secondary, given the choice between the two I would give the nod to Bess. If Hartline continues to progress, he is the perfect compliment to Marshall because of his understanding of the game. That understanding does not only work for him but for his fellow receivers as well. When a WR can read a defense as well as the QB then both can lead the defenders away from the primary for that split second needed to get a guy in open space where a pass delivered in stride can lead to huge gains.
I think this might be the most talented Dolphin team we have seen since 1985... If they stay healthy they are going to make some waves this year.
i hate repeating my ss post here but i heard about this league today and thought it was worth repeating
ReplyDeletethis is just too funny
<span>http://everything420.com/forums/display_topic/id_623/420-Football-Is-Here—Here-are-the-Rules—Start-Practicing/</span>
in other breaaking news, the AP is reporting that the miami dolphins have have traded ricky williams to the pittsburg puffers for their entire 2011 draft picks
Patrick,
ReplyDeleteAlthough I never had the opportunity to see Warfield play or the 70's Dolphins for that matter, I hope you are right about the comparisons. It's fairly obvious to me that if Ronnie can stay healthy this year, we can have one of the best 1-2 RB combinations in the league.
I agree with you about Tinshaker's scenario number 1 for our WR's for the same reasons that you stated. However I'm not ready to say how talented we are until we can prove it on Sundays.
BTW--There was a very talented Dolphin team in 1994 when we had Keith Jackson, O.J. McDuffie, Keith Byars, & Terry Kirby. Too bad Kirby & Byars got hurt that year b/c I think we had a great shot that year. Marino looked phenomenal & I believe we were 7-2 before Byars got hurt.
I noticed that the contact for that site is named Bob. ffr, do you also go by Bob? 8-)
ReplyDeleteNO BRO, I'd never forget PWarfield,(he's alway's been my favorite),
ReplyDeletebut he didn't have the ""physically intimidating"" factor to go along w'the PWarfield skills that BMarshall has!!
He WAS an intimidating factor from a technique, grace, and skills POV,
and the alltime best FIN WR until now (though as you mentioned his stats don't suggest such)!!
WARFIELD was the ultimate, but not many fans these days have ever heard of him,
so I only included those that are relevant in the minds of most of today's fans...
Put me in coach, I'm ready to play! 8-)
ReplyDeleteherd likes the sticky. 8-)
ReplyDeleteAnd this is just another excellent example of what the Jets are going to have to deal with inside the locker room & going forward after this year. They all want to be paid the highest levels at each position & that's just not going to happen. It's clearly all or nothing for them this year.
ReplyDelete"ILB David Harris became the latest Jet to express hope that he gets a new contract this offseason.
Nick Mangold and Darrelle Revis have already made it clear that they are looking for a long-term extension. Harris is entering the final year of his four-year rookie contract and has quietly become an excellent run-stuffer and tackler in the middle of the Jets' stout defense. Even though Harris seemed resigned to the fact he'll probably have to play this year out without a new deal, the Jets are going to need to rob a bank to keep everyone happy."
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
you know, that is just so easy, but i am a gentleman, i wont comment on herd liking the sticky =-X
ReplyDeleteand no, i dont go by bob, nor as you put it 'like the sticky'
On second thought, after reading the rules, no way I could compete...I'll stick with recreational league. I don't think anyone would remember to keep score anyway.
ReplyDeleteIf the cap comes back next year they're going to be in trouble....
ReplyDeleteDarrelle Revis is gonna demand a huge deal, David Harris a big deal, Nick Mangold a big deal, Santonio Holmes a big deal, Antonio Cromartie a big deal, Braylon Edwards a big deal, Shaun Ellis a big deal.... these are all pplayers whose going to have a deal run out and in Revis's case, he already wants a new one, next year i'd guess he'll demand one. Considering how much they're already paying some players huge amounts, it could get ugly, especially considering how young almost all those players are, they'll get prime deals. Shaun Ellis is the only older one and he's their only good end, which is why I fully believe they wish they could have taken Odrick, don't care what any jet fan says.
This is an excerp from an article Don Banks wrote about Tannenbaum & the Jets....
ReplyDelete"The first-round franchise quarterback who has been worth every dime of the investment, and all the buzz and momentum generated by the perception of New York as a young and exciting team on the rise that seemingly everyone wants to play for."
Is Don Banks really that clueless? Sanchez, first of all is NOT a franchise QB, and DEFINATELY was not worth a first round pick, and all the trades they threw away to get to that pick! And when did the Jets get young? LOL NY media self love!!
The factor we DON'T know about is what will the salary cap be? Will there be one in the same manner we have one now? I think a lot of the rules the teams operate by right now are likely to change with the new CBA. Or shortly thereafter.
ReplyDeleteSo anyway, while I was browsing Jets contracts I just found it amusing that while everyone is trying to debate which player will be/is better Henne or Sanchez...
ReplyDeleteHenne- 2010: $470,000, 2011: $555,000
Sanchez- 2010: $6,442,500 (+ $10 million guaranteed option bonus), 2011: $13.5 million
... I'm sure while the majority of us at least feel Henne is better/going to be better... everyone can agree Sanchez is so overpaid it's laughable.
The Jets just signed a center from the Ravens because Mangold could be an issue. LOL
ReplyDeleteHey man, what's the score? Uhhhhh... are those french fries?
ReplyDeleteThe Jets are paying all that money to a QB who lost a game of chess to a scallop.
ReplyDeleteA lot of the NY media makes fun of Rex and his Jets for all the dumb bragging they do and I love it.
ReplyDeleteDon't think for a moment that if Chad H. puts up close to probowel numbers this year and proves he IS the starter and LEADER of the future that he won't get an extension before his present contract is up, and will be getting paid on par with what Sanscheese is getting. That's the way the league works.
ReplyDeletealthough with 2011 being the next lockout year......neither one will be making that money..
ReplyDeleteWarfield was freak for his time... Over his career he averaged, AVERAGED over 20 yards per reception.
ReplyDeleteThat's how it works.
ReplyDelete<span>WHP, I remember that team, but I felt Shula got a little desperate and went into the one player away mode. That was the year of the Thanksgiving snow game in Dallas where I almost got my ass kicked in Dallas stadium when Leon Lett kicked that blocked FG and I turned around and taunted the Dallas fans. Luckily I was with my 3 brothers and we are all on the plus side of 6'3" so they thought twice about it. I remember Byars got injured but it seemed like that team never had very good chemistry. Too many chiefs and not enough indians.</span>
ReplyDeleteTry, the best part to me is Henne is looking for the contract Sanchez already has... Can you say hungry, yeah Henne has a lot more reason to take his game to the next level while Sanchez can walk away now and never work again.
ReplyDeleteYea Patrick !! no Dolphin WR has been is league as of yet.
ReplyDeleteSanchez can retire right now, open up a hot dog stand and be very happy.
ReplyDeleteLOL, he'll lose all his money eating his way through his stock.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Rex will stop by for his daily dozen.
ReplyDelete...lol ...case closed? ...here we go with the Henne fan boys again ...its not even OTAs yet and you've got him as our "franchise" QB already ...on what? ...that he "might" be better than another wannabe QB? ...first Henne has to actually WIN the QB job in camp ...which he's never done ...THEN he has to post a winning record ...consistently ...and THEN I might be persuaded he's our long tern answer at QB ...but right now, based on the actual evidence, I think the starting 2010 Dolphin QB is recovering nicely from shoulder surgery ...and our next "franchise" QB is still playing college ball ...is THAT "solid" enough for you?
ReplyDelete