Wednesday, October 7, 2009

Discussing Trades and Roster Moves

Tomorrow has been set aside for my Jets game preview but no doubt the topic of today will be the trade the NY Jets engineered to acquire wide receiver, Braylon Edwards, from the Cleveland Browns.  Every now and then a trade that sounds riskier than the reward occurs, and this year the AFC East has seen it's fair share of that, what with the Richard Seymour trade earlier in the year.  Some could have applied the same label to Miami trading away two offensive linemen, but so far so good in our favour on that one, especially as it's likely we ended up trading two players who weren't going to make the roster in favor of adding a very solid backup QB after Chad Pennington's injury.

But I bring this up because already panic has started to set in amongst Miami fans in regards to facing Edwards twice a year, and of course the rumblings of 'why didn't WE trade for him' will undoubtedly surface over and over again as long as Edwards and the Jets are a successful pairing.  But there's a lot more than just what's on the surface.  

Most fans don't think about this stuff, but anyone who's played or coached team sports knows that team chemistry on and off the field is extremely important, and often plays a role in shaping a roster.  For all the limits and pitfalls of Miami's current receiving corps, it's likely that guys like Brandon London didn't 'fit' in to the mold that the coaches are looking for to be part of the team.  And while no sane general manager would look at someone like Braylon Edwards and not see an extremely talented football player that can make an impact, he also has to weigh the pros and cons.  In my mind there are more cons to the deal than pros as far as the Jets are concerned.  Until the new couple gets past the honeymoon period and shows they were meant to be, by winning championships together, it's hard to imagine that this move somehow makes them ready to contend for the Superbowl.

The Jets got Edwards, their true number 1 receiver, except it's been a while since he was the go-to-guy (10 catches in 4 games is not going to cut it).  In return, the Browns, who were unable to keep private their locker room cancers over the last few years, get rid of one of the tumors, and his massive cap blow, and also get Chansi Stuckey (an NFL starting WR), Jason Trusnik (backup linebacker who was very impressive against us in the week 17 matchup with the Jets last year, registering 5 tackles and a fumble recovery), AND not one, but two undisclosed draft picks.  According to my math, the picks are a 3rd and a lower round pick.

So, if we do the same math, Braylon Edwards, currently under investigation for assault, who was also partying with Donte Stallworth the night Stallworth committed vehicular manslaughter, would have cost Miami the following in trade:  Davone Bess, Reggie Torbor, a 3rd round pick and probably a 4th or a 6th.  Does he still sound worth it?  Yes, Edwards and Ginn would open things up, but at what cost?  And what cost do the Jets pay on top of their traded goods, when Edwards brings his attitude, media circus, and penchant for violence to New York?  

To that I say, thanks but no thanks.  I'd rather wait for the draft and use one draft pick to solve our issues.  There's no reason why we can't draft someone with class and character, not to mention better hands, like Eric Decker.  A rookie can be molded and kept out of trouble.  A veteran trouble-maker usually can not.  But as a draft-nut, I'm a bit biased.


Ok, now for some fun:

Put on your General Manager hats and share your crazy trade ideas with the rest of us.  






 

37 comments:

  1. I knew I could count on you to talk me down ;)
    Still wish that we would be somewhat aggressive in our free agents/trades instead of taking the cheaper way out.....but here is to hoping we do get one of your golden draft nuggets next year!

    Again, HUGE THANKS for your blog~

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  2. well dagnabbit, why did I show up as guest up there??

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  3. The Knight who says Ni!October 7, 2009 at 8:15 AM

    Braylon Edwards = overrated and not a trifecta type of player. This deal doesn't bother me or scare me at all.

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  4. Because you're always welcome here....LOL

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  5. The Knight who says Ni!October 7, 2009 at 8:18 AM

    I think we have enough young WRs and TEs. We need to look at WR and TE in free agency next year. We need some established pass catchers who can run traditional routes and pick up 1st downs. Meaning not more slot WRs but guys who can run the deep out and a post.

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  6. We don't Braylon or his drops, and I'm glad to see the Jets trading away more picks (they're fans say a 3rd and 5th are nothing, but Shoone Green was a 3rd, and Leon Washington and Cotchery were 4ths, so obviously they should know a little about young cheap talent).

    Anyway, I really really like Vontae... like a lot, it's just that I'm slowing getting the feeling more and more that were really going to miss not taking  Hakeem Nicks off the board.

    Tin,

    Here's my question to you. It's obvious now (in a coppy cat league no less, where 3 of 4 AFC EAST teams have big WRs) that the fins need a #1.

    Knowing WRs normally take a little longer to develop than your average NFL position player. What do the fins do now? Move up and draft an elite guy (who?), trade for someone (otra vez, quien?), or sign a big name in FA 2010 (same question)?

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  7. The Knight who says Ni!October 7, 2009 at 8:44 AM

    I'll take the good corner over a WR any day.

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  8. Cruising through the other blogs and half of them are ready to be Jets fans now.  Can't people realize that there are 32 teams, and there will be other transactions that don't involve the Fins?  Everytime another team makes a move, half our "fan" base whines and cries.  I for one am thankful we didn't make a move on this P.O.S.  He will self destruct (even further) in NY with an ego-first coach.  All of Cleveland is partying their asses off right now.  Look at it from their perspective: Starting NFL WR (no drama), badass special teamer, and two picks that could easily become nuggets in the gold pan next year-all for a guy who punches Lebrons kids!   Hate to break it to our fans, but this isn't Madden.  Great move for the fins.
    Hey Tin, overall, does this help the jets for this game?  I for one think that losing your starting WR (who knows your scheme), and your leading special teamer, a few days before a divisional game is a poor impulsive move.  Advantage: Fins

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  9. 2010 FA WRs

    Whole lotta nobodies. Vincent Jackson, maybe???

    <table border="1" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" width="600">
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Isaac Bruce</td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>San Francisco 49ers</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Antonio Bryant</td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>Tampa Bay Buccaneers</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Chris Chambers</td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>San Diego Chargers</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Mark Clayton</td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>Baltimore Ravens</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Airese Currie</td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>Chicago Bears</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Braylon Edwards<img src="http://www.kffl.com/stats_analyzer/alert.gif" border="0" alt="New player news!"/></td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>Cleveland Browns</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Lee Evans</td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>Buffalo Bills</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Brian Finneran</td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>Atlanta Falcons</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Joey Galloway<img src="http://www.kffl.com/stats_analyzer/alert.gif" border="0" alt="New player news!"/></td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>New England Patriots</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td>Chris Henry</td>
    <td>UFA</td>
    <td>Cincinnati Bengals</td>
    <td>Free Agent</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>WR</td>
    <td><a [...]

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  10. whoa sorry tin, can you remove that last post?

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  11. " were really going to miss not taking Hakeem Nicks off the board."
    This ties in to the question below. For as good as Nicks was in college, I
    didn't see him as someone who would be ready to contribute right away in the
    NFL. And so far, he hasn't contributed much. Steve Smith is, and last I
    checked he was the top WR in the NFL which is shocking considering it's
    really his first year being the go-to-guy. They also have one of my
    favorite young WRs in Mario Manningham (Henne's former #1). Nicks is
    probably the 5th receiving target on the team
    To be honest, while I am a strong supporter of the #1 WR philosophy, I
    don't really see it much in the AFC East. Obviously, the closest thing we
    have to it at the moment is Davone Bess, though I think that will change
    with Henne in there. The Bills got TO, but he has had no impact at all and
    was shut down by us on Sunday. The Jets just got Edwards, but he wasn't
    even the leading receiver on the Browns. Before that their top receiver
    was, and will remain Jerrico Cotchery (you don't expect Sanchez and Edwards
    to fall in love at first sight do you?).
    I'm not a fan of spending huge amounts of money on ANY player, free agent
    vet or draftee, but that's neither here nor there, the fact is if you're
    going to get that true #1 guy you have a better chance of doing so by
    drafting high than by free agency. Last I checked T.O., Houshmandzadeh, Roy
    Williams, etc are all sucking it up. Keep in mind that this year's draft is
    an anomaly in that guys that were drafted high like Heyward-Bey and Jeremy
    Maclin were both unlikely to make a splash their rookie years, and the one
    guy who seemed rock-and-roll ready, hasn't been in the locker room yet, much
    less on the field (Crabtree - just signed last night). I thought Britt
    would be the most influential, and so far I was right on that call as he has
    become the top receiver on the Titans. But next year's class looks very
    different. Instead of a group of two-year wonders (1 year in Nicks' case),
    there will be a stream of four-year starters, who have shown far more NFL
    qualities, like Decker, LaFell, even little Jacoby Ford looks like an NFL
    receiver.
    But I like Decker and after watching him on tape I can't think of anyone
    else in the 2010 draft that is ready to start in the NFL from day one.

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  12. Couldn't agree with you more. But at the same time I would be shocked if
    Edwards plays more than a handful of snaps this week. I wouldn't be
    surprised if they don't even activate him.

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  13. Hines Ward is a nobody? LOL
    Vincent Jackson is one of my favorite players in the NFL and I wanted to
    trade for him last year when they were shopping him. Considering that they
    will likely let Chambers go, I think they'll re-sign Jackson I didn't
    realize the Bills entire WR corps outside of Lee Evans is going to free
    agency....you'd think they'd extend at least one of these guys...

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  14. Hines Ward may be the most underrated player in the NFL (definitely at the WR position though), but there's no way he's leaving Pittsburgh (at least I would think that's the case), so I wasn't counting him.

    I think V. Jackson would be a great sign. Followed by maybe Steve Breaston, and then maybe Lee Evans (who I believe is only 5'10" though) or Kevin Walter (another 2 guy).

    I know Nicks is 3rd on the Giants depth chart now, but I wouldn't be suprised in the least bit he's starting opposite Smith by the end of the year. And for the record, I agree with you completely on Britt (looks like a player for years to come).



    And Decker at 6'3" 215, looks great (the 4.53 40 isn't bad either), but is he a #1? I honestly,  don't know enough about him to answer that.


    Either way, I hope we crush the stinking Jets this week and Langford hurts Sanchez so bad, he finds out later next week he's unable to have kids. Seriously, I really hope that happens.

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  15. Well I say go get Randy Moss.  He hasn't extended his contract lately has he? 

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  16. No use crying over spilled milk, but still check out the YAC, this is exactly what Sparano means when he talks about "finishing" runs:

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81321e61/Hakeem-Nicks-54-yd-TD

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  17. herdfan, Moss is old, what are you smoking!?
    Plus he makes about $9 million per year.
    You should have suggested this roster move about 4 years ago! ;)

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  18. The Knight who says Ni!October 7, 2009 at 9:36 AM

    You can't tell what any WR on the Raiders is with Russell at QB. He might be the worst QB I've ever seen. Talk about bust.

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  19. Knowno,
    Nicks has THREE catches this season. Take away that one 54 yd one, he is
    averaging 9 yards a catch, not that you can average three catches.

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  20. The only time I could ever identify any Raiders receivers by name was when
    one of them went to Las Vegas and got violently mugged and left for
    dead....but now I've forgotten his name.

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  21. I wasn't around this team 4 years ago.  And, just call me a 'friend of Ricky'! 8-)

    An old Randy Moss still probably has a step on a few younger guys.  And his attitude has improved.

    And stop giving me a hard time---you are the one who requested 'crazy trade ideas'.  See what I get when I try to follow the instructions.............

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  22. Well nothing's more crazy than the idea that the Pats would ever trade Randy
    Moss. He will finish his HOF career there.
    I encourage the crazy ideas, but reserve the right to crumple up the paper
    they're written on, spit on it, light it on fire, then punt it into a
    gasoline-filled dumpster.

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  23. A simple no thank you would be sufficient. ;)

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  24. i say we trade ginn and bess plus a 2015 7th rounder to arz. for boldin and fitzgerald.


    these crazy trades seem to work on the ss blogs.  LOL.    i just love how some one goes on and on about how badd a players is then says we should trade him for a top player

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  25. Bess isn't as good as Stuckey and doesn't have his ceiling, while Torbor isn't as valuable as Trusnik because Torbor has a big contract and is overpaid. The Browns wouldn't have made that trade with us. It's a moot point though, because we shouldn't have traded for Edwards anyway.

    Also, Brandon London isn't on an NFL roster because he lacks practice sqaud eligibility. He's certainly talented enough for that, but his '08 stint with Miami rid of him it. Unfortunate for him, as he's kind of stuck in limbo.

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  26. Chris,
    I don't see how Brandon London's ineligibility to be on a practice squad is
    the reason he's not on an NFL roster. That sentence makes no sense to me.
    I used Bess and Torbor not because of their talent or potential but because
    they match the roster positions that were traded.
    And the fact that we shouldn't have traded for Edwards was sort of the whole
    point of the article.

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  27. The Knight who says Ni!October 7, 2009 at 11:59 AM

    Tin, Nicks has been hurt and has missed two games with injury. In the last preseason game he had 2 TDs including an 80 yarder and then in his first action he breaks a short route into a 54 yard TD. He looks like the real deal.

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  28. Looking at how the Steelers, Pats, Giants and Ravens, for example, do business versus mortgaging the future for blockbuster trades like Washington etc, I think we stick with the plan. The Jets must think they are very close making moves like this. If they hit, it will look like genius - when they don't, it will set them back years. I like what we are doing. We are improving the team unit by unit and making a team from pieces that fit together (spot on Tin - chemistry is everything) which will hopefully develop into a contender naturally, rather than by trying to take shortcuts and forcing round pegs into square holes.

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  29. I think that draft is the only way to go. Get the better Edwards that is younger and catche batter lol. The draft the last couple years kinda shot down the whole 3 year thing for some WRs anyways. Britt, Royal, Jackson, maybe massaquloni now... all these guys are producing ok fairly fast.

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  30. Just read Omar's blog (I come here for info first now!) and he said much the same as me. Way to go O!

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  31. Omar came up with a bizarre trade - bring Cahmbers back. It doesn't get my vote.

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  32. Speaking of Omar's blog, I noticed this :

    Ryan said Ronnie Brown will be the best team the Jets have faced all season. "And Ricky Williams isn't shabby either."

    Ronnie Brown is the whole team?  Did he say that, or is it a typo and should be the best back?  That would fire me up if I was a player.

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  33. Ryan said 'best back'.
    Anytime you read something written by Omar and it makes no sense, it's safe
    to assume it was a typo. He's a smart guy but he is really lazy with the
    proof-reading.
    But I also think he's slipping. This is clipped from his latest
    article<http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/sfl-dolphins-derrick-jones-100709,0,6066255.story>
    :
    "Derrick Jones was added to the team's practice squad on Wednesday, and will
    serve as a backup to nose tackle Jason
    Ferguson<http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/sports/jason-ferguson-PESPT002217.topic>,
    the starter, and Paul Soliai, his backup."
    *hmm...not really the way it works, but OK....
    "*Jones, who starred at Grand Valley State, wasn't selected in the 2007
    draft despite reportedly running a 40-time in the 4.7 second range."
    *ok, first, Omar has been harping on about the 40 time all day long, but
    what relevance does a 4.7 time have to someone who is lined up on the
    interior d-line? Maybe the fact that he went to grand valley state had
    something to do with his draft standing....or maybe he only bench pressed 10
    reps...to say that a d-lineman should have been drafted because of his
    unofficial 40 time (he didn't have a combine invite or a pro-day, so who
    knows when the time was taken but he WAS 30 lbs lighter than he is now.*

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  34. I think Omar is really busy/distracted/ or something.  It truly is a shame to see what his blog has become.  On the other hand, you have kindly provided some refuge and actually IMO it is better.  BTW, you, the knight and uk had me laughing so hard yesterday evening I snorted!  Good stuff!

    Thank you for the clarification, though.  I started to ask there @ the SS but then I did my best PBP reader impression and thought nah, nevermind.   ;)

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  35. We were so funny you snorted the 'good stuff'?? What? I don't condone
    that sort of behaviour here at Tins Fins.

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  36. No, no, no.  I don't do that.  I have my standards.  O:-)

    Back to my original question, if it had been anyone other than Rex Ryan I probably would have assumed the typo, but with him you just never know.  It sounds just like the kind of thing he would come up with.

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  37. Getting a true # 1 WR may not be the best thing to do for cap reasons.  Sure it would be nice to have one but at what cost ?  Miami has little cap space to work with as it is.  So who do we give up to gat a big name guy ?  Ronnie Brown, Y. Bell, Henne, or Langford who ?  We have waited a long time to put a team on the field we can be proud of, and little by little it's getting there.  Are we to go back to what has failed this team in the past signing other teams headaches and garbage ?  I think not.

    We are moving in the right direction and I see no reason to change something that is not broken.  So I say to the trifecta, stick to your plan and keep the mistakes to a minimum.  Having one HOF player and 52 suckers hasn't worked for us in the past, and it won't work for the future either.

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