Monday, March 1, 2010

Tin Bits - 2010 NFL Combine Edition - Part 1 of 3

  • I didn't manage to watch every player go through drills over the weekend, due in part to NFL Network's terrible TiVo descriptions (you couldn't tell which groups were drilling when, or what was a re-run or a new show), but I did eventually manage to see most of the coverage and I felt a bit of an uneasy feeling at parts because it sounded like Mike Mayock was reading out my top ten list descriptions at times.  Still, I found myself disagreeing with him more than not, and I thought Jamie Dukes made himself out to be a complete idiot this week.  And who is that woman with the caked on make-up that is now hosting Total Access?  And no, I'm not talking about Rich Eisen...
  • The WR gauntlet drills were hilarious - I think there were more dropped balls than actual catches overall and only two or three WRs even attempted to stay inbounds.  It really made me wish that Eric Decker and Terrell Hudgins were there.  Still, I thought Brandon LaFell looked good despite his small hands, and I was quite shocked at how poorly Jordan Shipley did overall.  He didn't run fast enough, and he couldn't keep his feet in any of the route running drills, which goes to show that WRs who play in spread offenses and take those dink and dunk passes don't make the best NFL WRs.  That's why I consider someone like LaFell to be more NFL ready because they played in a pro-style offense. 
  • Dorin Dickerson pretty much solidified himself in my mind as someone who the Dolphins should have on their board.  I still see him as a potential beast at WR, and I have to believe that he continues to work as a TE in a wily move to blow away the competition in drills.  Still, I like this guy no matter which position he's drafted for, and I'm sorry that Mayock couldn't acknowledge the fact that a month ago he said he should switch to full-back.  
  • Bruce Campbell looked oddly out of place in the OL drills.  If I didn't see him in that group running blocking drills I would've thought he was a Defensive End.  You don't see a lot of OL with bodies like that.  I thought it was hilarious that he lifted his shirt to bare his belly during the 40.  Oddly enough non of the other OL did that.  Before the Combine he was sort of slipping off the radar, but I think his performance has gotten him back into 1st round consideration.
  • Trindon Holliday remains on my board with his blistering 40.  Dexter McCluster looks like Davone Bess 3.0.  He is just so fluid and attacks the ball better than most receivers.  His slower 40 time is not much of a concern because he looked pretty damn fast with the ball in his hands.  Golden Tate looked pretty good at times, but I couldn't figure out why he would catch the ball then make-out with his biceps.  He looked a bit stiff in the route-running drills, but his 40 and gauntlet were top-grade.  
  • Of all the RBs, two RBs stood out to me.  One was # 8 on my Top 10 - Joique Bell from Wayne State has had a very good off-season and has sky-rocketed his draft status in the last couple of months. He hasn't blown away the competition, but he's been very consistent and has been making teams take notice.  The 2nd was a bit of a surprise in Tennessee's Montario Hardesty.  He came through for me during NCAA fantasy season in 2009 at times but was riddled with injury and inconsistency.  Still, he looked pretty strong and could be a good bruising back in the later rounds of the draft.
  • Jason Pierre Paul ran a 4.64 (unofficially) in the 40.  Rumor is he also did a reverse somersault off the rafters of Lucas Oil Stadium and stuck the landing!

66 comments:

  1. We Have Playmakers???March 1, 2010 at 9:20 AM

    With the amount of Juniors coming out this season I believe this will be an extremely deep draft this year.  Therefore I think that every pick we have is valuable.   My hope is that if McClain is off the board, we are in a position to trade down from 12 in order to stockpile as many picks as possible. 

    I understand that Golden Tate's speed blew away all expectations this weekend & while I really like this kid's game breaking ability, at less than 5'11" he's not what Parcells is looking for.  His production this season was far more impressive than anything that Ginn did in college but in the end the comparisons will be made about route running & there will be other big WR's in this draft other than the risky "big boom or bigger bust" Dez Bryant.  Is he the next Boldin or the next David Boston?  Since the red flags are already there, we'll have to let another team roll the dice.

    I'm pretty confident with the number of picks we have that we'll take a RB.  Hardesty has seen his stock rise this weekend with his better than expected speed.  Hardesty is a big, physical RB that I like & that we're going to need for the future but how nice would a speedster like Spiller or Best look spelling R&R on 3rd downs this year. WOW!!!

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  2. We Have Playmakers???March 1, 2010 at 9:24 AM

    Tins,

    Nate Jones is on the way out.  It appears you finally got one of your wishes in the secondary.  However, I don't agree that we are "deep" at CB since all it takes is one injury (like last year) to change that.

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  3. I remember you bringing up Dickerson a while ago, and I've been impressed with his performances so far.  Why trade for Boldin when we can just draft the next version?  My question to you Tin is how does his college #s and combine performance compare to Boldin?  Dickerson is fast, can jump, great strength, but how is his route running and breakaway speed?

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  4. Saw Best get carried off the field on a stretcher...I wonder if he's been banged up too much and if he has the size.  If Cobbs is back 100% you know Sporano has a man crush on him.  Any word on his recovery?

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  5. Was hearing a little chatter about McClain and his (lack of) bench reps.  No one seemed to point out that at 6'4"+, he's got signifigantly longer arms than a lot of ILBs, thus making the bench press more difficult.  I remember Samson Satele did about 40 reps, but he has stubby arms and look how well he worked out!  Should give us all some perspective on Jake Long, who measured in among the biggest in wingspan, and still was one of the leaders with about 38 reps. 

    Maybe it would be helpful to list reps alongside wingspan to get a more accurate measure of strength?  I know bench doesn't mean they can play, but as measure stick of strength, how do you guys think McClain did?

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  6. The Knight who says Ni!March 1, 2010 at 10:11 AM

    Some funny stuff there, Tin.

    Golden Tate had a few drops in the gauntlet and I was not overly impressed with him. I agree on Shipley, he looked over-matched athletically compared to some of the other guys. He's a late round pick if drafted at all.

    The guys with short arms always do more reps in the bench press. They showed the leaders in the bench press over the last decade or so and one or two of them are in the NFL and none of them are stars.

    As for RBs, Ryan Mathews seems to be on the rise as the top prototype back.

    As for McClain and his bench press (did LBs even do that yet?) he's just 20 years old and he can still get bigger and stronger.

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  7. Well they don't compare because Dickerson played WR as a freshman then switched to LB as a sophomore.  Then he switched to TE as a Junior.  I think he had 49 catches and 10 TDs in 2009.

    The thing with Dickerson is that the scouts hate him - most of them converted him to FB in their notebooks (despite the fact he worked as a WR in Senior Bowl week and TE at the combine), and cbs/nfldraftscout said 'not surprisingly' he had a good combine and ran a 4.40, but also said 'he's not fast enough to be a WR'.  Last I checked his 40 time was faster than 75% of the WRs.  They also said he's not big enough to be a TE at 6'1" despite the fact he measured at 6'2".

    He said that the Dolphins interviewed him at the Senior Bowl.  He put up 24 reps in the bench, ran a 4.40, broad jump of 10' 5", vertical of 43.5", and he scored 10 TDs in an offense that had two great WRs, and  a great RB.  The numbers he put up as a TE should be measured up against other teams that don't have those kinds of weapons on offense.

    When it comes to scouting potential draftees, I look at the game tape, I look at the combine, I look at the intangibles, and finally, I look at how bad the player slaughtered my beloved USF Bulls, and he slaughtered us - he had 5 catches for 58 yds and a TD, and his blocking was destructive and the main reason we lost the game.

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  8. The gauntlet was a mess overall...Carlton Mitchell made no attempts to stay inbounds - on his 2nd go through he ended up about 10 yards beyond the line...Shipley fell down...there were drops all over and a lot of bad throws/timing on the QBs as well.  I really wish they would change some of the drills, like instead of running in a straight line they should line up on a LOS with the QB then run through a series of cones (similar to what they did at the all-star challenge a few weeks back (although Shipley looked amazing in that and terrible at the combine, so what do I know?)

    McClain has decided not to work out at the Combine.

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  9. I saw that.  Jones is probably going to be on Miami's radar in the future if they get thin, but they don't see him as being able to compete for a starting job, so there's no point holding him back. 

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  10. The Knight who says Ni!March 1, 2010 at 11:51 AM

    Agreed, the gauntlet was very sloppy.

    McClain did the bench press with 24 reps which is pretty good and then the mysterious hamstring injury popped up.

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  11. Tin,

    So did the combine change any of your opinions or rankings?  Seems to me like scouts use this information to either sell their suggestions or prove their doubts.

    And once again you tease us with your beloved rankings.  Why the games???  Are you part of the Trifecta scouting tree?  Or are you training to be the next Fins GM?  :)

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  12. We Have Playmakers???March 1, 2010 at 12:27 PM

    McClain has decided not to work out at the combine???  I don't like when players don't participate.  IMO--It means that they're either not 100% or they are hiding some kind of weakness.

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  13. We Have Playmakers???March 1, 2010 at 12:31 PM

    Tins was extremely high on Connor Barth last year so clearly after we took Pat White we can deduce that he's not a scout for the Trifecta.

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  14. We Have Playmakers???March 1, 2010 at 12:39 PM

    Not exactly sure where some of the ESPN "insiders" get their information but apparently they have a rumor of Thomas Jones going to the Dolphins.  Not that I would mind having Jones but he's no spring chicken.

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  15. The Knight who says Ni!March 1, 2010 at 12:50 PM

    It's agent driven.

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  16. Yes that White pick will haunt me forever.  While Barth was average as a rookie, I still think he's a 3-4 OLB and could've had a great year in a 3-4 scheme rather than a 4-3 DE.  I'm not sure it matters what scheme you use White in though....

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  17. Big Dawgg, I'm not teasing anybody, I posted a top ten list for every position on the blog - check the archives.

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  18. tin,

    heard selvie ran a bad 40.  i was hoping he would shine in the combine.  oh well, maybe he will fall and the fins can grab him i a late round.

    btw, thanks for the blog,  i have given up on the ss.  it has become crap with one person making 100 post a day under multiple names, mixed with a few decent comments. 

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  19. Hey, I'll have you know I only use one name, and I haven't posted much at all there lately!!  8-)

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  20. The Knight who says Ni!March 1, 2010 at 2:40 PM

    "it has become crap with one person making 100 post a day under multiple names"

    ffr, who would that be? Home and his multiple names and conspiracy theories of the New World Order spraying chemtrails on us daily and creating snowstorms and earthquakes? LOL

    I've read that Selvie has slipped into the mid-rounds for whatever reason.

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  21. The Knight who says Ni!March 1, 2010 at 2:42 PM

    I didn't post much this weekend and I notice there are new names popping up with old grudges. Some people just can't let some of the petty stuff go so they change names so they can rehash it. Pretty pathetic.

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  22. Knight I noticed ukfinfan posted on the wondeic post. Maybe we'll hear from tonydatiger soon too! lol

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  23. Jamie Dukes was an idiot long before this weekend, can't stand that dude. The ILB who stood out to me in the drills and a good 40 time was Angerer, not only does he have a great name for a ILB, the kid looks like a player. I wouldn't mind if we could get him in the fourth, maybe the third if we can trade down from 12 and pick up some more picks.

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  24. Also Micah Johnson had a terrible 40, he ran 4.99. I mention it not to bash him, we all know he's coming of a knee, but to say it could work to our favor. I like him in the fourth as well, we might even get him in the fifth(compensatory) If enough teams don't like his speed. I've seen tape on him, and he is a good ball player.

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  25. Tin,
     Haredesty was the only RB to be in the top performers in every stat. He was in the top 6 in every stat. He could be a late round steal.

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  26. Isn't angerer a little small?  What's the trifecta's size range for LBs?  6'3"+,240lbs+ I think.....

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  27. Yeah he is only 6' 235. so he isn't the prototypical parcells mold. But Z. Thomas was 5'11. I think Angerer could bulk up to 250 in a year or two. The third round is probably a little too high for him, but if we could get him in the 4th or 5th, that is probably a little more realistic.

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  28. The Knight who says NiMarch 1, 2010 at 4:08 PM

    Angerer is too small for the trifeta. Zach would not have been drafted by them. Zach wasn't a 3-4 ILB, he was a 4-3 MLB. He didn't have the size to take on the blockers that 3-4 ILBs have to take on. Angerer could be another Zach type MLB in a 4-3.

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  29. The Knight who says NiMarch 1, 2010 at 4:11 PM

    herd, I'll try the Wonderlic another day. I've been busy with so much the last few days my head would explode if I did that now. LOL

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  30. I made my TOP FIN 32 b/4 the combine and have Everson Griffen(USC,6-3,278,4.64 Precombine)@#6
    mostly due to his size/speed combo,
    (behind only SUH,Berry,MCCLAIN,McCoy,and DMorgan)..
    I taped the ENTIRE combine(to watch indepthly on a rainy day),
    watched most of it as it went down,but missed Eversons stuff!!!
    How'd he do,and is he tooo BIGG to be a versatile BP hybrid type??

    I realize I probably have him ranked higher than most,but that size/speed thing is huge in my eye's,
    (HOPE he has the hips to be versatile,but I missed his turns)!!!
    From what I HAVE SEEN,I believe that @ the least he'd be a 2nd to 3rd rnd DE that'd have to be gameplanned for!!!

    BOTH of MY PC's took a crap recently,and need to go to the shop,(presently wrkng from safe mode),
    so I'm not able to do some of the stuff I need to in order to be a productive contributor!!!
    FRUSTRATED,this is the 1st time I've been able to get MY desktop to work in a week,MY LT is fryed,
    and neither will be working correctly until APR,so I'll be scrambling for the draft..
    Luckily,I had my 1st 3 rnds kinda organized,but presently I'm working w'pen/paper on Sats(4-7)prospects!!
    >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o >:o !!!!!

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  31. The Knight who says NiMarch 1, 2010 at 5:22 PM

    13kvFINS, it all depends on whether a guy like Everson Griffin has that fast twitch muscle factor they talk about to play OLB. He might be a bigger version of Wake and a pure edge guy, like Freeney. They're better suited as 4-3 rush ends. Wake has not proven yet that he can play OLB. I sure hope he can because at the moment we need him.

    There are rumors that Kindle is viewed as the best pass rush 3-4 OLB in the draft. That makes him top 15 automatically. Don't be surprised if he's there when we pick and we take him, even over McClain. He's a high upside player. He's just under 6-3 and weighs 250. He can run 4.7 and he makes plays. If you watch the games he played in he's active. He has a big upside. He has to mature a bit, get bigger and stronger and he will get faster. In a few years we all might know who Sergio Kindle is.  ;)

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  32. Angerer is bigger than Zach, I don't see a problem with him playing the WIL spot. But you might be right. He will be good player though.

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  33. PS,I'm PRESENTLY HOPING for ONE of MY TOP 4 @/or (via trade above) #12 (SUH,Berry,MCCLAIN,McCoy)!!!

    I'd PERSONALLY trade-down fo EVERYBODY-ELSE!!!

    IFFFF we don't land McClain,I'll be hoping to trade-down for Dan Williams,
    AND that SPIKES is there in the 2nd!!!  PRESENTLY,I feel we have to land either McClain or Spikes @ ILB !!!

    I think Sproles(I KNOW he's tooo small for BP) would be a GREAT acquisition for us as a change-up RB,
    or in the WildFIN w'RONNIE,(imagine him taking the sweep handoff from RB ala RW),and being left w'a blocker vs two dfndrs leaving one man for him to beat,not to mention his return skills!!!
    RWs got one more yr,and PCobbs(Bless him)isn't a productive return guy,(though he is a SPECIAL STeamer)!!!
    Who KNOWS whats to come of TG and his return skills,
    I believe a return man/young productive #2 is a high priority,(yet below ILB,NT,OLB,WR,FS)!!!
    o10 RB,RW,Sproles,and Hilliard,o11 MR EVERYTHING RONNIE,EXPLOSIVE Sproles,and Power-guy LHilliard...

    On the ""a boy named SUH"" scenario's,I liked #5,and KNIGHTS thoughts,(though hence a SUH inj we'd be F'd)!!!

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  34. The on;y problem I have with Kindle is he's a bit of a project. I don't want a project at 12 overall. I would much rather have McClain, he's a sure thing at 12. If by some miracle Berry falls to us at 12 then I make that pick.

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  35. That's funny/scary.  I didn't say anything about you not doing the Wonderlic yet.  But I was thinking it.  GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!  lol ;)

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  36. THNX KNIGHT!!

    On(MY TOP FIN 32),I have KINDLE @ 14 right behind #10 RSAPP,11 Pierre-Paul,12 Spikes,13 Weatherspoon,
    followed by #15 Brendon Graham... 

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  37. The Knight who says Ni!March 2, 2010 at 7:40 AM

    LOL

    I'm just burnt mentally with work and a music project I'm working on. My brain is already overloaded. The last thing I want to look at is some kind of question like "a train is moving at 50MPH and Johnny has 15 apples in his basket, after 2 hours how many apples does Johnny have"? LOL

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  38. The Knight who says Ni!March 2, 2010 at 7:40 AM

    How is Kindle anymore of a project than any other prospect?

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  39. The Knight who says Ni!March 2, 2010 at 7:42 AM

    13kvFINS, I don't think Spikes will go in the 1st round. Pierre-Paul is too much of a project. Very little production in college.

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  40. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 8:43 AM

    A lot of people thought Matthews was unpolished coming out of USC & look at the season he had.

    According to some scouts, Kindle is more polished than Orakpo was at this time last year.   Not only do I agree with that based on watching Orakpo last year & Kindle this year but I was not very high on Orakpo making the transition to the NFL.  It just shows what I know since he had a really impressive rookie season.  If Kindle is on the board at 12 I'd be kind of surprised we passed but then again I was shocked that we passed on Matthews last year who I was certain we would take if still available.   Don't get me wrong I really like that we picked Vontae Davis & I'm confident that if he stays healthy he's going to be a star but everything about Matthews said "Parcells kind of guy" to me. 

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  41. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 8:44 AM

    I hate that too.

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  42. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 8:53 AM

    Tins,

    The scheme you use White is to hold the clipboard & hope that he can handle that.  I know what we were going for with him but no matter how you slice it, he was a reach as a 2nd round pick.  I wouldn't even take Tebow that high & I think that Tebow is a much better player than White was/is.  Somehow, someway (not sure if he's a QB) I believe Tebow will find a way to make it on the field as a solid contibutor considering his size & athleticsm.  His legs are like Sequoia trees.

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  43. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 8:56 AM

    Knight,

    I'm with you on this.  I wouldn't touch either play.  BTW--Dan Williams might be the fastest prospect NT I've ever seen.  The only problem is whether he can actually play NT or not.  LOL.

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  44. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 8:58 AM

    I love Suh but I think this draft is just too good & too deep to trade away picks.  Either we trade down or we stay at 12.  Just one man's opinion....

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  45. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 9:03 AM

    13kv,

    BTW--I love the idea to get Sproles.  Remember Dave Meggett???  Okay maybe Sproles is tiny but he's so explosive as a KR, as a reciever & a change of pace back???  The acquisition of Sproles would automaticaly take this offense up a notch.

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  46. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 9:12 AM

    Check this out.  Why am I not surprised....

    INDIANAPOLIS — Alabama LB Rolando McClain will not participate in any NFL Scouting Combine drills Monday, he told NFL Network analyst Charles Davis.
    Originally, it was believed that McClain wasn’t hurt. However, McClain’s agent told NFL Network’s Mike Mayock that the linebacker has been receiving treatment on an injured hamstring twice per day since last month’s Senior Bowl. The agent also said McClain has undergone two MRIs.
    McClain told Davis that he would do all drills at Alabama’s March 10 pro day.
    McClain measured at 6-foot-3 and 254 pounds at the combine, and he’s the No. 1 inside linebacker on NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock’s board. NFL.com’s Bucky Brooks projects McClain, who left Alabama after his junior season, as the No. 15 overall pick to the Giants.

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  47. To answer that question you would need to know how many jetfans the train passed and if Johnny was fast enough to reload and throw two apples per jetfan, or just the one well aimed fastball?!? Take it easy anyway Knight, if Johnny doesn't get them, the Fins will.  ;)

    PS If fatty Ryan was the target, the answer would be none of course. A train travelling at 50 mph would be passing him for at least 5 minutes since he is so fat - ample time to propel all 15 projectiles and score direct hits ..... you could hardly miss a target that big??? :-D :-D :-D

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  48. Sproles would work. Hard to see him to get the tackling angle and before you know it, he is in the secondary.
    Lex Hiliard is a bruiser. But how long would he hold up injury wise.
    What about Sheets. Couldn't he fill a Sproles type of role for us?

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  49. The Knight who says Ni!March 2, 2010 at 9:30 AM

    All the Dolphins LBs are 6-2 and taller and 245 lbs. or more.

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  50. The Knight who says Ni!March 2, 2010 at 9:34 AM

    WHP, what did Dan Williams run in the 40?

    Did you see that Taylor Mays ran a unofficial 4.24. That's sick at his size.

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  51. I can't help but get the feeling that with pick 1, or 2 we are going to say "what the hell were they thinking!" As we look around in disbelief...

    I surely hope that this does not happen. However, look at the Pat White pick last year with C. Barwin sitting there for us!

    Hartline will mature into a #1.5 WR. Almost a #1, but just not quite fast enough.

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  52. I guess that I am the only one here...will check back later.
    See ya fellow Dolfans.

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  53. Was waiting to see Sheets last year, will be watching for him this offseason.  I think Sproles will be too expensive for our taste....

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  54. "<span>However, look at the Pat White pick last year with C. Barwin sitting there for us!"</span>

    I think I'm going to cry....AGAIN!!

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  55. Tin,
    I am with you. Barwin had verstility (All American TE and DE) and a great attitude. He would have filled a need and been a situational receiving TE for us also.  Crying over spilled milk...UGH!  Iwas definitly in shock when they took White instead!

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  56. Only pleasant surprises this year....PLEASE!

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  57. Red Dog,
    I agree. Too expensive. It would be a nice surprise to see Sheets really come on during the pre-season and become a weapon instead of riding the pine.

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  58. <span>tin,</span>
    <span> </span>
    <span>just curious if you are going to update your top 10 lists after the combine results are in?  </span>
    <span> </span>
    <span>(if you said you were sorry, you know we dont read what you write).</span>
    <span> </span>
    <span> </span>
    <span>Hey, I got a 2 on the wonderlic test but for some reason, the NLC’s passed the wonderlic with flying colors.<span>   </span>LOL</span>
    <span> </span>
    <span>Actually, I had a 18/23 going and I got interrupted (damn clients think it is tax season or something) by the time I got back my time was up.</span>

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  59. All the times are pretty screwed.  His official was 4.4 something...

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  60. That's a question I'd like answered.  Alot of folks on the Dan Williams bandwagon, but can he be a true NT?  Or is he a good to great DT? 

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  61. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 11:34 AM

    Knight,

    That IS amazing.  I was very high on Mays last year but I wasn't as impressed with him this season.  Maybe the Raiders defy conventional logic once again & take him on sheer spped.  It worked out great with Heyward-Bey last year.  LOL!

    At 327 pounds, Dan Williams ran a 5.17.  I could be wrong but  McCoy & Odrick just don't look like NT's in a 3-4 but more like great athletes that play either DT in a 4-3 or DE's in a 3-4 & Suh can do anything he wants.  The other guy who looks like a a true NT is Brian Price from UCLA who actually is stronger & a little bit faster than Williams.

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  62. We Have Playmakers???March 2, 2010 at 11:50 AM

    Red Dog,

    It's an answer that no one will get until the NFL season begins.  It's impossible to predict if Williams can be a true NT.  In fact it's impossible to predict if any of these players will good in the NFL.  The best bet in this draft is Suh but you never know for sure.

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  63. The Knight who says Ni!March 2, 2010 at 12:11 PM

    WHP, the same with me on Mays. He doesn't have the skill set we need at safety which is improved coverage.

    That's a pretty good time for Williams. I just feel that maybe we can land a guy close in ability in the 3rd or mid rounds. Maybe Cam Thomas.

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  64. The Knight who says Ni!March 2, 2010 at 12:11 PM

    Yeah I heard about that.

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  65. As I said lastnght/below, I PERSONALLY ONLY WANT ONE of ""MY TOP 4"" @12,
    EVERYBODY-ELSE I'd trade down for!!

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