Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Workout Warriors?

Just to pass some time, here's a head to head comparison of two WRs working out today, OSU's Dez Bryant (considered a top 10 pick - nfldraftscout compares him to Roy Williams) and USF's Carlton Mitchell (graded as 3rd round - nfldraftscout compares him to Brandon Marshall):

               Height      Weight     40 time   Vertical   Broad    Shuttle   3-Cone   Bench

Bryant         6014       224 lbs       4.57          38"       11'01"     4.48        7.21        DNL 
                         
Mitchell       6030       215 lbs       4.40          36"       10'02"     4.55        6.96       16 reps


And now, some recent quotes from their position coaches:

[Fast forward to 2010, and I call up Coach Brewer. Like always he says, "Timmy Martin, what's going on?" I said, "Coach Brewer, how good is this kid Dez Bryant?" I couldn't believe what I heard come out of Coach Brewer's mouth.

Coach Brewer said, "Timmy, he's better than Moss. I never thought I would see someone that could track the ball better than Randy when it's in the air, but this kid can. He's fearless on the football field and doesn't mind one bit to roam the middle of the field. Dez is a very smart football player and loves to watch film and learn about the game. He has a very high football IQ and picks up the game very easy."]
Gunter Brewer was Randy Moss' WR coach at Marshall and Dez Bryant's WR coach at OSU.


  
["Carlton can flat fly," USF wide receivers coach Phil McGeoghan stated recently. "He has all the tools, all the ability. He is very diligent in his route running and his assignments. He is getting better, I see him improving everyday. He comes out here, works early and stays late. Carlton Mitchell is just a very talented guy who is big, tall, athletic, and has all the gifts you want in a receiver."]

It should be noted that Dez Bryant was a good team-mate and an excellent football player at OSU but in the last 6 or 7 months has sown he clearly does not have the best common sense.  First he hangs out with Deion Sanders, lies to the NCAA, picks a notorious agent, skips the combine, and OSUs pro day, then a day before he runs at his private workout, he boasts about how he's going to run a 4.3, then he forgets to bring his cleats to his workout, and subsequently runs a 4.57.  I have to say, this guy is so lucky he's blessed physically, because if he wasn't, no one would be giving him all these second chances.

Carlton Mitchell on the other hand does not have the hands of Bryant, but he's a much better option when it comes to hard work, ethics, and all out speed.  In my mind, Bryant is what he is, he is maxed out (albeit at a high level) and Mitchell is someone who is only going to get better.  The two WRs couldn't have come from a more different scheme - Bryant in the spread at OSU where he was the featured receiver, and Mitchell in the run-first scheme at USF where receivers were asked to block more than anything and there were 6 WRs sharing reps.
An argument could be made for the Dolphins trying to draft both of them, just one, or none at all.  I'll bet they're both on the board come draft day.


64 comments:

  1. Do not see the Dolphins going after another WR project
    Think at the start of the season
    We end up with the same WRs as last year and a new TE

    See Morgan @ 12 pulling ahead now of DT/NT
    which will be addressed at #43

    Think Nolan sures up with two more LBs in the draft and DT/NT

    All are receivers are serviceable and most and
    Realistically all young Dolphin receivers still developing

    Nice comparison Tin
    as most compare the opposite due to attitude
    Comparing Bryant to Marshall

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  2. We Have PlaymakersMarch 30, 2010 at 1:28 PM

    Tins,

    Impossible to say whether Bryant has "maxed out" yet (he's only 21 years old) but he's as much of a boom or bust prospect as I've seen in awhile.  The truth is that no one knows whether he is going to be as good of a pick as Randy Moss or as bad of a pick as Charles Rogers.  And since there is just too much risk in taking Bryant @ 12, if he turns out to be a great WR it seems extremely likely that it won't be as a Dolphin.

    My favorite players in this draft (based on the guys I've ACTUALLY seen play) are;

    1) Suh--Hands down.
    2) Berry--Wow!!!  If we were somehow able to get him, I'd be ecstatic.
    3) Spiller--Unbelievable playmaker BUT with Ronnie still around for another year it seems unlikely but might be BPA & too good of a prospect to pass up.
    4) Kindle--Best DE/OLB I watched this season in college.

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  3. USF - 508 rush attempts vs 297 pass attempts... I'd say that's run-oriented! Holy crap!  I like drafting D in rds 1 + 2, then thinking about a WR, such as Mitchell or Taylor Price (who I thought showed GREAT hands at the combine).  I know the Easley kid from UConn gets some mention as a late round guy too.  Freddie Barnes can catch, but can he get separation?  I'd lean towards no at this point.  Mitchell or Price, though, I think could.

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  4. The Knight who says Ni!March 30, 2010 at 2:03 PM

    WHP, I don't get why more people aren't impressed by Kindle. The guy had 22.5 tackles for losses last season yet everyone said he was weak against the run. As an outside guy he's a penetrator, not an anchor type player.

    In his last two seasons he's had over 100 tackles, 15.5 sacks and 34 tackles for losses. The thing people can't forget is these guys are still young prospects who haven't maxed out yet. In a couple of years Kindle might be a much better, bigger and stronger player.

    The draft is not about just this season's needs and that's why people get surprised about what we do in the draft. We need to boost our overall talent level and if the need position has value jump all over it. There are good LBs in this draft and a few of them will be there when we pick. I can't see us passing on LB at #12.

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  5. The Knight who says Ni!March 30, 2010 at 2:08 PM

    If we draft a WR and I think we will, he will be a good after the catch guy. We need that guy who turns an 8 yard catch into 15 or more. Hartline is the only other WR we have who has done that consistently. It would be great if this WR could also return punts and upgrade over Bess.

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  6. I'm no expert of the NFL, but I think seperation and great hands are more important than YAC.  You have to get open first and foremost.  If a WR has that seperation the yac will come because he room to make a move.  Maybe that goes without saying but it seems we need to reminded about it from time to time.

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  7. Agree with Fang
    Getting open and catching the ball is the #1 priority
    As Bess does with 48 catches for a first down in 2009 and the 2nd best 3rd down conversion receiver in the 2009

    Only a complete idiot that does not understand a slot receivers position when told to run short routes would criticize Davonne Bess

    Bess finally was given a route to get behind the coverage against the Sttelers on ONE PLAY and
    Simply the Bess succeeded and scored a WR TD
    Tying Ted Ginns body of work in 16 games going deep with only one TD in 2009

    Obviously only a complete idiot would think Bess is the problem when in fact with 48 Miami Dolphin
    First Downs he picked up in 2009 and second best slot receiver in the NFL on third down conversion in 2009
    in his second year as an undrafted free agent and developing player is clearly
    Simply The Bess solution

    and that is why Bill Parcels loves him

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  8. The Knight who says Ni!March 30, 2010 at 3:30 PM

    Well of course he has to get open and catch the ball. LOL

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  9. The Knight who says Ni!March 30, 2010 at 3:34 PM

    Was talking about Bess on punt returns. Bess will be a part of our offense. Please read and refrain from the insults!  *DONT_KNOW*

    1. Hartline
    2. Bess
    3. Ginn

    That's how I see our WRs now. Camarillo is savvy but he's limited. Bess can do what Camarillo does.

    Home, you're phucken hopeless!

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  10. Sorry dude that was a bit elementary. :-[

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  11. Geez now I feel even worse. Did I miss something ? I was not talking about Bess. Hey Home go count the stars or something.

    ReplyDelete
  12. If Kindle is the best you saw last season you don't watch as much football
    as you should...don't you know it's good for your bones?

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  13. I really like Barnes...but you may be right.

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  14. I can't believe Bryant forgot his cleats - either this guy has the worst luck or he's got the focus of an armadillo...

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  15. Not to get too conspiracy theory, but what if he didn't forget his cleats...

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  16. Agreed Tin, I don't like Kindle at all... He's a one trick poney who never met a running play he liked. I see little chance of him becoming a Dolphin.

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  17. Knight, please see above... He's a one trick poney who never met a running play he liked. I see little chance of him becoming a Dolphin.

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  18. Bryant is the biggest risk/reward guy of this draft... The film on him is pretty damn convincing but his diva potential is off the map. Forgetting his cleats, come on man!

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  19. ...I'm thinking Parcells may have a deal in place with Paoli ...if Eric Berry is still available at #5, KC gets Smiley, Miami's #12 and a 6th ...we get the starting FS we desperately need, KC gets a proven OL starter they badly need and can still get a prime OLB at #12

    ...then a long wait to catch a NT (Cody[if he drops], Woods, or Troupe) at #43

    ...then an OLB ...and another Safety prospect

    ...I don't think we touch offense on day 1 ...we took 2 WRs last year

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  20. Look at the stars
    Look at how they shine 4 U

    ReplyDelete
  21. I must agree with myself
    After hearing all the psycho babble on Tebow not being picked until like round 4 from jealous bloggers that are not too bright

    NostraHomeUs is going on record to say Tim Tebow will be drafted in the 1st Round
    Thats Right
    1st Round

    Excellent Fit for the NE Patriots
    Tebow will then come back and Kick our AZZ in division games using the spread offense and wildcat

    Boy
    Then the haters will be happy
    Cause they will be able to continue to hate

    and if they are not hating and complaining
    then they have No conversation and
    There day is not complete  (right robbie) ;) LOL

    ReplyDelete
  22. and It Was All Yellow

    ReplyDelete
  23. hey lemmus, where ya been?
    I think KC is Miami's most likely trade option, but KC also needs a FS
    badly, and would probably prefer to get a Left Tackle out of that #5 pick
    anyway. Still it's a possibility.

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  24. Good Morning lemmus from Boca Raton, Florida

    ReplyDelete
  25. How do U like me, now?

    ReplyDelete
  26. Its me
    Home

    ReplyDelete
  27. Home
    Homey D. Clown
    Homegrown
    Hometown

    U get it now

    Knight
    Look for the orange hair and shiet eating grin
    That way U know its me

    Cause as Tinshaker confirmed
    and the SS can confirm
    I`m not the troll

    Homey Dont Play That!

    Love
    Home

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  28. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 7:32 AM

    Tins,

    That may be true BUT if I haven't seen a player actually play I'm not going to tout him based on other people's opinions.  I'm not accusing you of doing this but come on....How many people out there have actually watched Dan Williams play last year???  Or the year before that???  The truth is I didn't even know who Dan Williams was before last year.  He was that irrelevant!!!  I love Eric Berry but that's based on his play as a Freshman &  as a Sophmore.   Berry looked like a Junior or Senior when he was a Freshman.

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  29. Thomas or Berry?
    Berry or Thomas?

    physical coverage safety
    Hmm

    We did offer a lot of money to Rolle
    and I thought that was a big reach

    Do we get one of these guys now
    before a LB?
    and then reach for some one like LB Spikes?

    or do we just hope for McClain or Morgan @ #12?

    Homey thinks this getting interesting

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  30. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 7:36 AM

    Patrick,

    For the record I watched Orakpo play the year before & was less than impressed with him.  Say what you want about Kindle but IMO he's a better pass rusher & Orakpo made the Pro-Bowl last year.  I'm just saying Orakpo had 10 sacks for the Redskins last year....

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  31. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 7:38 AM

    Knight,

    You're preaching to the choir on Kindle.  Sergio was definitely better last year at Texas than Orakpo was the year before & well, look at how Orakpo did as a rookie.

    ReplyDelete
  32. It would be hard to screw up the 12th pick - no matter what position we pick
    the odds are very high that we should be getting a good player.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Agree Tinshaker
    and man do I miss football season

    More excited about this draft
    Than any others

    bit scare of those darn Redcoats with all those picks

    ReplyDelete
  34. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 7:43 AM

    Tins,

    You hit the nail on the head.  KC needs a FS just as badly as we do but the Number 5 is usually too high for a safety.  I don't agree that Berry isn't worth the Number 5 pick (Berry IS that good) BUT Pioli's ears are definitely going to be open.

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  35. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 7:52 AM

    Tins,

    I'm actually starting to believe that Sparano is "pretending" that he's not interested in Bryant.  If we wind up taking Bryant then Sparano should join the World Series of Poker.  The biggest concern on Bryant to me is that he lied to the NCAA but he's a BEAST & exactly the kind of WR we need.  There is no doubt that Bryant is the physical prototype.  Just a thought but Bryant is only 20-21 years old.  He's young, immature, & needs to grow up but Parcells might have found a new project to join his mentoring program.

    ReplyDelete
  36. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 7:57 AM

    Tins,

    Say what you want but you can't deny what Bryant looked like on the field in 2008.  Just like Crabtree was last year, Bryant's talent level is head & shoulders over the rest of the WR's in this draft.  But like I said--is he Randy Moss or is he Charles Rogers?????

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  37. Personally I though Berry's junior year was his best...
    I watched more Tennessee games last year than I care to count but that's
    because I had loads of Vols on my NCAA fantasy team throughout the year at
    TE and RB. I was impressed by Williams during those games and have since
    seen more tape on him, and he was phenomenal at the Senior Bowl all week
    where he worked under the Dolphins coaching staff.
    Anyway, I know what you mean about people taking other's opinions as gold,
    and that's partly why I'm not high on Kindle - when I watched him play he
    was pedestrian, yet everyone says he's awesome. I didn't see it personally,
    and I think the DE/OLB class is a bit over-rated in this draft anyway - I
    like Graham, but if Greg Romeus had come out this year he'd have blown these
    other guys off the map. Mayock would be saying, "Jason Pierre-who?"

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  38. I've never denied Bryant's talent. I think he is the most talented WR in
    the class, and he does compare with Crabtree in terms of expectations vs
    behaviour - Crabtree's only bad move though was the agent he hired -
    otherwise he was squeaky clean. Bryant has more issues, and if you think
    he'll actually attend training camp, you're smoking some super strong
    stuff!!

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  39. This is from my brother...

    Bryant is a punk.  I watched the tape of his workout so let me give you some examples.  He falls down a dozen times on patterns and cone drills.  Says he has the wrong shoes (He brought 8 pair and he skipped the workouts at the Combine so this was his day in the sun).  His 40 times were nothing special and got progressively worse as he ran them which shows fatigue (He has six months to prepare for this workout and he picked the date).  He caught an in route and went to the ground.  When he got up he gave one of those fake, "I think I hurt something looks while he reached for his back" and literally glared back at the guy who threw the ball.  He told one of the interviewers that he does not like to run slants.

    He is off my board - take him mid second round and you might get a <span>player</span>, but he will still go high - the talent is there - and he will be a bust.

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  40. ...look in almost everyday ...just in and out ...usually too busy to play ...just had to comment on all this draft speculation ...seems too likely with Smiley setting out there that a draft deal isn't on the table ...Paoli seems the likeliest ...they need OL help more than anything ...Cassel spent the entire season on his back ...Smiley is a solid starter ...and yes, they could certainly get a good LT at #12 along with Smiley and another low round pick ...although I think its quite possible with the depth in this draft that they might wait and take a primo OLB instead.

    ...on our side I just can't get over all the focus on the diva positions ...none of which imnsho cost us a game last year ...otoh, both FS and NT damn sure cost us games ...we didn't lose to IND or NO for lack of offense ...we lost because we couldn't stop their deep passing games ...and with either Payton or Brees, a pass rush isn't going to beat their release if the coverage doesn't hold ...so I'm convinced we're going to double up on FS this year ...sure a great WR is desirable, but we took two last year and I think the trifecta will give them time to develop.

    ...OLB is a need but I think FS and NT are much bigger needs ...Wake is 2nd year and looks promising, expecially considering Nolan's defensive proclivities ...if JT is back he can more than fill Porter's boots at his natural position for at least one more year ...and this draft is deep in OLB so they can afford to pick raw talent and take time to develop ...they don't have to draft a starter much as we'd all love to have one.

    ...and just to iterate, Berry is not only a real need pick but when you throw Nolan into the mix, Berry as a starter makes his attacking defense all that much better ...so yeah, I think Parcels might well trade up to get him if it doesn't break the bank ...ymmv and usually does :)

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  41. lemmus you dumbass ...not guest!

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  42. The Knight who says Ni!March 31, 2010 at 9:49 AM

    I heard all that today on NFLN.

    He doesn't like to run slants? LOL

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  43. If a guy blows off his one opportunity to assure himself of making millions of dollars then he is not only foolish, but arrogant and stupid. The sad thing is there will be a team that takes him in the first round. I think the reasoning is they can't believe he could be that stupid.

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  44. The Knight who says Ni!March 31, 2010 at 10:24 AM

    He could drop in the draft quite a bit.

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  45. Tin, Nate Allen couldn't run again because of a muscle issue... This could drop him all the way to the 4th or later.  He would be a steal in the 6th round.

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  46. Patrick, I don't see the 3rd or 4th ranked safety falling that far. It's
    not like he's never run before or doesn't have loads of game tape to
    over-ride the 40. He still did all the position drills, he just didn't run
    the 40 - he said he's going to try and run in a couple of weeks.

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  47. Love his leadership qualities... Omar was right on the mark today about the FS being the QB of the defense. That's why it's hard for a rookie to step into that role. It doesn't have to be the FS but a safety is best suited because he has a better view of the offensive formations. Zach used to do it but he was a unique football player.

    I think the defense was really hurt last year by the lack of a leader in the secondary.

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  48. I just want to add that I've been mostly a big fan of all of the guys they've been bringing in (atleast out of the ones that I've seen).  Tin, do you have a Master list of everyone you know that the Dolphins have brought in for a visit?  That would be cool... 

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  49. Believe defensive captain LB is the QB of the defense

    Nobody does it better than Ray Lewis
    Did U catch him miked up in the Pro Bowl

    FS could possibly in a remote chance be the QB of the defense but
    Once again disagree with kool aid kelly the Miami Dolphin hater

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  50. Krillian
    Hope the hip is doing well and U R getting around OK
    Maybe soon U will be able to trot

    ReplyDelete
  51. When does TE Greg Olsen come in for a "Looksee" and
    Fasano get traded?

    Henne needs some big targets that can  actually catch

    Too Many Drops last year (even if they were not labeled drops LOL)
    and Homey Dont Play That!

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  52. Homer.. Typically the MLB calls the defensive signal but the coverages after the defense is in the proper alignment is called by one of the safeties. This is why you always hear them talk about communication in the secondary. Last year I think Wilson was in over his head and the Dolphins expected to get a guy who could make the secondary calls, but Wilson had us in the wrong coverages a lot of times and that is why you saw the lack of help over the top.

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  53. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 12:52 PM

    Tins,

    Although I respect your opinion when it comes to Dan Williams if we trade up & take Berry I'll be extremely happy.

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  54. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 1:03 PM

    LOL@Tins!!! 

    Good point about Bryant.  I agree that Bryant has issues/question marks that Crabtree did not have.  However, Crabtree's stock was definitely effected by his personality & attitude when he met with Coaches & GM's.  Based on talent, there's no way that Crabtree should have fallen to Niners. 

    My point on Bryant is that if Parcells takes Bryant he knows more than we do about him b/c based on everything I know, he's too much of a risk at 12.

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  55. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 1:05 PM

    All it takes is for one team to fall in love....

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  56. We Have PlaymakersMarch 31, 2010 at 1:10 PM

    <span>"If a guy blows off his one opportunity to assure himself of making millions of dollars then he is not only foolish, but arrogant and stupid. The sad thing is there will be a team that takes him in the first round. I think the reasoning is they can't believe he could be that stupid."</span>

    Patrick,

    Or someone drafting him knows something that you & I don't.  This reminds me a lot of when Randy Moss got drafted.  BTW--How did that pick work out???  LOL!!! 

    Just don't be that guy who keeps lamenting year after year that we don't have a Number 1 WR & we could have had Bryant if & when he becomes a superstar.  I saw a lot of his games when he was a Sophmore & he is an unbelievable talent.   The gap between Bryant & the next best WR could be a full round.

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  57. Gotcha Bod

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  58. Can someone define to me what leader should be on the field ?  My dictionary discribe's it this way.  (To take by the hand.) I'm not sure if that will work in the NFL or in any pro sport.  Also I don't think this team has had a leader for quite some time now.

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  59. I'd rather have Berry too but for right now we have the 12th pick - as much
    as I prefer to take defense early on, I wouldn't pass on Spiller if he's on
    the board. To be honest, I don't think I'd pass on a couple of the OTs
    either...

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  60. Fang, a 'true leader' just sets a good example for others to follow and
    helps to provide an environment for reaching full potential - leading by the
    hand is not true leadership. You know what they say, 'give a man a fish he
    eats for a day (arguably more depending on the size of the fish), but teach
    him to fish, and he''ll leave work early every Friday to go get the boat
    ready".....or something like that.

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  61. Hellloooooooo.  You play to WIN the game!  We will draft a WR but not in the 1st.  Same deal with a NT. 

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  62. master list of confirmed visits would be nice.  how many of those guys did we draft in the past 2 years?

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  63. I'm down with the fisher dude.

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  64. That SHOULD BE LIKELY thru the 1st 4 rnds,(w'this drafts depth)!!
    UNLESS we throw the whole FAN STRATEGY out the window w'an oddball 2nd rnd pk!! ;)
    Though I still have faith that pk could still be special in some realm after a few yrs of adjusting to the NFL game!!   EXTREMLY FEWWW QB's of any type excel @ the NFL game b/4 3-4 yrs in the league!! GOPW ;) !!

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