Tuesday, June 16, 2009

Making The Roster Work For You

Hey everyone, sorry for the lack of posts lately but the truth is I have a mild case of the rabid jungle cat possum flu and have been unable to string any sentences together. My entire house-hold is sick all at once, and I spent the weekend taking care of my wife who was bed-ridden and my son, who's nose was leaking like a faucet, but still had the energy of a tornado. My wife said she owed me big time, but she made up for it because by Sunday night/Monday morning, I was sicker than the two of them combined. I called in sick for work - the first time I've done that since 2001. I'm back at work now but not 100%. Thankfully, The Knight Who Says Ni! has compiled some info on the Dolphins roster and discusses the 3rd QB rule below. Thanks again for reading and contributing to the blog, everyone. ~Tinshaker.

This is taken from an NFL rules column.

"Seventeen years ago (1991) the third-quarterback rule was instituted to enable teams to have an emergency quarterback available who was not on the 45-man game-day active roster, since many teams, for strategic purposes, only carried two quarterbacks on their game-day roster.

Everybody thinks they understand the NFL's "third-quarterback" rule. But do they?

The rule states that if a third quarterback is inserted before the fourth quarter, a team's first two quarterbacks cannot be used in the game at any position.

Another aspect of the rule is sometimes misunderstood. It is a coach's decision as to whether a third quarterback will be used.

The active quarterbacks do not have to be injured for a team to use its third quarterback."

My comment:
Okay... we can activate 45 players and an emergency QB as a 46th player under certain conditions.

Let's take a look.

OL - 7 (2 ST)
TE - 2 (1 ST)
QB - 3 (White)
HB - 3 (1 ST)
FB - 1 (1 ST)
WR - 4 (2 ST)

DL - 6 (2 ST)
LB - 8 (4 ST)
DB - 8 (4 ST)

K - 1
P - 1
LS - 1

That's 45 players and 20 special teams players.

Our emergency QB? It can be someone who played QB at some point in his football career. If we get down to 3rd and 4th QBs we're screwed anyway. Ronnie and White will take snaps in the Wildcat and spread offense if Penne and Henne went down. That's an extreme situation. But we can still run an offense. We'd see a lot more running though.

We can make the emergency QB a last resort. I'd make all three of our QBs active if I could. It's the most important position and there is the Pat White factor. If we can find enough guys who can do a lot of things on game day like play special teams we can pull it off.

As for the overall roster we currently have 82 players. We need to get down to 80 by training camp and another 27 players will be cut when the season starts.

My early pre-season predictions are:

NT Ferguson 6-3 315 13th
NT Soliai 6-4 345 3rd
DL Starks 6-3 305 6th
DE Langford 6-6 290 2nd
DE Merling 6-5 290 2nd
DE McDaniel 6-7 300 4th
DE Dotson 6-4 290 2nd

OLB Porter 6-3 250 11th
OLB Taylor 6-6 250 13th
OLB Roth 6-4 275 5th
OLB Wake 6-3 255 1st
OLB Walden 6-3 245 2nd
ILB Crowder 6-2 245 5th
ILB Ayodele 6-2 250 8th
ILB Torbor 6-2 250 6th

CB W. Allen 5-10 195 9th
CB Green 5-11 205 5th
CB J. Allen 6-1 205 4th
CB Davis 5-11 200 rookie
CB Smith 6-4 215 rookie
FS Wilson 6-1 205 6th
SS Bell 6-0 205 7th
S Culver 6-1 210 4th
S Clemons 6-0 210 rookie

C Grove 6-4 310 6th
C/G/T Berger 6-5 310 5th
LG Smiley 6-3 310 6th
RG Thomas 6-4 310 2nd
LT Long 6-7 315 2nd
RT Carey 6-5 345 6th
OT Garner 6-7 320 2nd

TE Fasano 6-4 255 4th

QB Pennington 6-3 225 10th
QB Henne 6-3 230 2nd
QB White 6-0 195 rookie

RB Brown 6-0 230 5th
RB Williams 5-10 225 9th
RB Cobbs 5-8 205 4th
FB Polite 6-0 245 5th

WR Ginn 5-11 185 3rd
WR Bess 5-9 190 2nd
WR Camarillo 6-1 190 4th
WR Turner 6-5 225 rookie
WR Hartline 6-2 195 rookie

K Carpenter 6-2 220 2nd
P Fields 6-5 235 3rd
LS Denney 6-5 255 5th

That leaves 6 other spots available. At least one more OL and TE. A 3rd TE is very possible but I don't think it's a lock. I'm not sure how deep we really are there. Haynos, Nalbone and Bronson? Martin can make plays but he's injured at the moment (sports hernia) and he's been inconsistent in his career. Wilford as a WR/H-Back might be a 3rd TE and 6th WR. Maybe WR London or Armstrong, special teams is important for both of them. An additional OL, DL, LB or DB to fill out the remaining spots is also possible.

The backup TE and WR positions will be interesting to watch. Lot's of unknowns.


  1. So to clarify, if we activate 3 QBs, then we can play all 3 whenever we feel like?

  2. The Knight who says Ni!June 16, 2009 at 9:26 AM

    Yup, you don't have to designate an emergency QB. If you make 3 QBs active, they can all play whenever you want. You can put the emergency QB tag on someone else to fill that role so in reality you have 4 options at QB with one having to play under the 'emergency QB' rule.
    Meaning if we put our emergency QB into the game before the start of the 4th quarter, none of our 3 QBs could play again in the game. That would never happen. The only time our 4th QB would play would be if the other 3 went down. If that happens, I mean come on, we're in trouble.
    I'm not sure who that option would be as the emergency QB but he couldn't do anything but hold a clipboard and/or stand on the sidelines the entire game.
    What is more likely is that we go into the game with two active QBs in Pennington and White. Henne would be the emergency QB. The only time Henne would go into the game is if both Pennington and White go down. Then after that game, if Pennington or White can't go the following week Henne would be active along with one of the others and we mayor may not designate an emergency QB.
    There are a lot of options. In reality, how many times do you see a team need 3 QBs in a game. It's a rare and bad situation.

  3. actually, if Henne was the 3rd 'emergency' QB, they could still get him reps in the 4th Q.  remember its the coaches decision, they can play the emergency QB if they want to.

  4. Knight,
    I noticed you listed Ginn as the first receive, uuhhhhgggg, you love for him is just getting so old LOL.
    Just kidding there, on a serious question, if White is listed as the emergency QB can he play another position such as RB or WR and it not effect the playing status of the other qb's.  Or is it once the emergency qb goes into the game at any position the other two are done.

  5. The Knight who says Ni!June 16, 2009 at 10:07 AM

    LOL @ ffr!
    If White was the emergency QB he couldn't play anywhere until the 4th quarter unless Sparano put him in there earlier. If he played before the 4th quarter, that would then make both Pennington and Henne inactive for the rest of the game.

  6. He could be 'active' as a WR/RB and play in the game though.
    They don't HAVE to have a 3rd QB.

  7. I think i agree with knight, henne will be listed as the emer qb.  only problem i see with that is what, if any, effect will it have on his head

  8. tin,
    another contest for you, or rather a suggestion for a contest.  lets play, guess the final roster.  see who can come closest to picking out the final roster.  well, not final, but say, opening day roster, knowing how anal knight is he will tell me the final roster is at the end of the season LOL

  9. The Knight who says Ni!June 16, 2009 at 10:25 AM

    Right, but ffr asked about White being listed as the emergency QB.
    If we can field 42 active players to cover offense, defense and special teams, we can suit up 3 active QBs to get to 45 on game day. That's what it comes down to. It's easier said then done. That's why I tried to find 20 special teams players and field a 45 man roster with 3 active QBs.

  10. The Knight who says Ni!June 16, 2009 at 10:27 AM

    Henne will have to learn to deal with it. It's all about team. Henne is going to get his opportunity at some point. I think another year watching and learning will benefit him greatly.

  11. i think it is all going to depend on if white can do more then just play qb.  if he isnt good at playing rb or wr, then he will probably be listed as the emer qb and that is it

  12. This will all change every week anyway.  I think they will try a few different options, and if White stinks it up anyway it may not be a huge issue.

  13. You honestly think herdfan will put in that kind of effort?

  14. ni ...your Offense/Defense totals are off ...should be 20/22 with the position counts you posted.
    ...I think Armstrong makes the 53 on strength of showing in the otas ...camp to come but still.
    ...people get confused by the 45/53 numbers ...Miami can carry 53 on its roster but only 45 can be activated for a game ...the remaining 8 can't play at all with a single exception ...an "emergency QB" can be designated and suit up for the game as a 46th active player ...but if he enters the game for any reason before the 4th quarter, the other 2 QBs become "inactive" and cannot re-enter the game ...last year Beck was the designated "emergency" QB ...and we will have one this year as well ...doesn't cost us a thing and provides a wee bit of flexibility in an absolute worst case scenario.
    ...imnsho the "emergency" QB this year won't be White or Henne ...Henne will remain the 2nd string QB and replace Penne if he goes down ...White will be activated in every game and play both offense and ST ...he will be used as an option QB and RB ...and possibly in a 5WR set ...the guy is a real threat from anywhere on the field and I just can't believe he'll set on the sideline even as a rookie.
    ...the 46th man, the designated "emergency" QB could be a number of people ...he is eligible to play ANY position in the 4th quarter, not just QB ...and thus maybe he's not only QB capable but brings something else of value as well ...if only a fresh set of lungs and legs ...having White active gets them out of the "Beck" mindset where that 46th man is only an emergency QB ...who knows what Sparano and Henning will come up with, eh.
    ...tin ...sorry to hear you're sick ...you were missed, eh ...this place gets addictive and I need that fix. 

  15. Excuse me, but I didn't do so bad on the first contest, and it appears hell is going to freeze over before there is a winner for the second one.  What happened to treating me with more respect? 

  16. The Knight who says Ni!June 16, 2009 at 11:08 AM

    lemmus, you're right but it still adds up to 45 for an active game day roster. I'm aware that the remaining 8 players can't dress for the game.

  17. ...I'd think we'll have at least two OL backups besides Berger ...the OL is a rough place to play and injuries can be counted on ...if the starters stay healthy and Thomas is anywhere near as good as O seems to think (did you hear him say that Thomas was better than Long as a rookie? ...that shocked me a bit ...O knows his OL stuff) we'll have a dominant OL ...but I'm not impressed with our backups at all and history says we'll be dependent on them at some point in the season.
    ...I REALLY like the way this offense is shaping up ...Penne is a master game manager and accurate as anyone short to medium ...the R twins can find holes opened by our OL ...and we have a WR corp that may be unknown now but won't be come January ...and then there is White who is a threat from anywhere ...and he can throw the long ball on the run ...and do it very accurately from his record ...Ginn is finally a real TD threat w/White throwing long to him ...and that will make Camarillo and Armstrong open as well ...they can't double all three long ...please please give me one of them long against a LB ...please!
    ...I'm dreaming ...I'll go away now :)

  18. is it ok herdfan, i respect you, besides even though i mentioned the contest, i wont be putting in any effort to do it. well, i guess depending on how easy it is to pick the players i might, but nnnnoooooo effort going to happen here

  19. Do you use some sort of voice recognition software to post with?  I can't understand you sometimes.  And others, I just don't want to! :-[

  20. so, the only contest you are going to do are the ones herdfan puts an effort into.  oooookkkkk, how about a contest every friday when the season starts that we guess penningtons stats for sundays game.

  21. You need an avatar.  But nothing too graphic please.

  22. ...lol ...seven can't dress ...46 dresses but can't play "except" ...ok, I'm being picky ...the post was aimed at some others here who still appear a bit shaky on the 45/53 rules and the how and why of them ...I know you know this stuff.

  23. why, would an avatar make me easier to understand.
    i dont know what was confusing about my earlier post, i said i suggested the contest but i was to lazy to be a part of it, how is that confusing.  maybe if i t y p  e    i  t    s l o w e r   LOL

  24. "...he is eligible to play ANY position in the 4th quarter, not just QB .."
    pretty much any player can play any position, but this is the first time I've heard that an 'emergency' inactive player can be anyone.  If this is the case why didn't we carry an 'emergency' WR late last year? 
    I think you can only designate an emergency QB (sure it can be anyone, but if he comes in, the other QBs have to leave the game).  At least that's my understanding.
    Sorry I wasn't able to update, lemmus, but I kind of spent the last couple of days in a fuzzy haze of dayquil/nyquil cocktails.  For the record, it's impossible to fall asleep after drinking a bottle of dayquil!

  25. ".I'd think we'll have at least two OL backups besides Berger .."
    I was thinking the same thing today.  Originally I thought it could be possible to go with just 7, but I now believe anyone we stash on the PS will be poached.

  26. Well, aren't you clever with your slow typing.  And I just like the avatars.  Interesting to see what people come up with.  I'm not sure why the one I have had today was there.  Must be in a folder with my other ones. Strange.

  27. ROFL, Perfect.  Just like I had you pictured.

  28. how ever this is more what you were expecting, dont worry tin, i wont use this one again.

  29. So, I got a message there was another one, but I think it was deleted. Hmmm.

  30. I also got the message, but can't see either FFR or herdfan's last comment...don't know why...but very curious to see the avatar!

  31. I think your blog is on the drugs.  It is doing some strange stuff.  Anyway, I responded once with how to see it, but it too, has disappeared.  Why doesn't your blog like me?    Maybe ffr is some kind of computer genius.  Nahhhh!  lol  Anyway, click on his avatar, or his screen name to look at the profile, and you see it there.

  32. LOL, I like it, FFR, no need to censor it, just good wholesome lesbian fun.
    to censor that would be anti-gay rights!
    herdfan, the only drugs my blog is on is robitussin!

  33. robitussin would be enough, IMO.  I can't take any of that stuff. Makes me f'ed up for days.  Medicine head or whatever.
    Seriously, I have had a couple of posts disappear.  And I see the like thing one here sometimes, sometimes not.  What is up with that?
    But don't take zicam.  Just saw where it has been pulled by the FDA.  And I have used that, since I can't do the other stuff.

  34. I don't even know what zicam is, i'm pretty medication-illiterate.
    I don't know what the 'like thing' is.  What I see on my end is slightly different than what you see though.

  35. Zicam is the stuff that you swab inside your nose, also available in a spray.  Kind of gross actually.  If you use it when you first have symptoms, it is supposed to make a cold go away faster than normal, I think.  Allegedly, it can cause loss of sense of smell. 
    Anyway, so as not to ignore the topic, I thought the idea of emergency QB was to save a roster spot for another position.  So if you have all 3 active, it takes that away.  Or have I missed the point, AGAIN?

  36. no, you're right, but there is more than ONE point.  We would not care about the OTHER points if we hadn't drafted Pat White.  He makes the other points relevant.  We sure as hell didn't have the 3rd QB Rule discussion last year!

  37. The Knight who says Ni!June 16, 2009 at 4:49 PM

    LOL that's what I meant.  ;)
    I'm not sure about the declared emergency QB playing any position. I don't see why not. Most teams don't have their QBs play multiple positions unless they're slash/Pat White type players. Holding for Xpts and FGs is about it.
    <span style="color: #404040; line-height: 18px;">"I think you can only designate an emergency QB (sure it can be anyone, but if he comes in, the other QBs have to leave the game).  At least that's my understanding."</span>
    <span style="color: #404040; line-height: 18px;">Before the 4th quarter. </span>

  38. The Knight who says Ni!June 16, 2009 at 5:06 PM

    Sparano has said you can only take 7 of these guys (OL) into the game okay. I say we keep 8 total on the 53 man and try to stash one or two on the PS. The bottom line is if you're calling up your PS guys you're already hurting.
    lemmus one thing about our OL depth. I think we're deeper this year and we went 4-0 without Smiley and 11-4 without Thomas.

  39. "we went 4-0 without Smiley and 11-4 without Thomas" ni
    ...lol ...true ...but I sure sweated a lot watching it ...and we got damn near every break last year ...we won't be playing Buffalo in an indoor stadium this year ...we WILL see snow ...etc, etc, etc.
    ...and despite all the pooh poohs, this schedule is much tougher ...so I'm looking for all the OL help we can manage ...even though we won last year, we did so DESPITE RG being a turnstile and Carey playing safe ...I'm hoping O really knows what he's talking about re Thomas being a better lineman than Long was ...if that turns out to be the case and our conditioning program pays dividends in guys not getting hurt, then we could have a good year ...I think 11-5 is a stretch but if we get some breaks again, maybe not :)

  40. ...if we go with Penne, Henne, and White all active in the 45 count then the 46th "emergency QB" could actually be anyone and play the entire 4th qt without affecting the eligibility of any of the original 45 ...we've never done that because we didn't have anyone like White ...but now that the option IS there, I'd be surprised if the brain trust didn't find a way to use it to our advantage ...just saying, eh.

  41. I like what you published as the starting 47 and assumed you would be asking for comments on the additional 6 to make the 53 man roster?

    My choices are as follows:

    For Defense 
    add 1 NT/DE  Rookie Lewis Ellis ?  Ellis probably should be a PS player and will probably be designated as such if the trifecta finds a NT acron before the final cuts. Fergurson will get tired this year again and we need someone to backup Soliai.

    For Offense
    add 5
    OL  add 1  rookie OT/OG  Nate Garner  He could play RT in an emergency and let Vernon Carey play OG, if Nate couldn't play OG.

    TE  add 2  Joey Haynos and either:  1st choice David Martin if he is healthy or 2nd choice TE/HB Ernest Wilford if he proves in TC he is a better choice by either playing TE or in 2 TE receiver sets.  The trifecta is not willing to accept defeat on Wilford so Martin probably will get released if he is not 100% healthy come the end of TC.

    WR/ST  add 2  Anthony Armstrong and Brandon London.  Brandon is our best tackler on ST.  For AA to make it he needs to show he can be an effective deep threat and an effectie returner on ST.

    We probably should look for another acron ILB and trade him for AA on offensive side of the line?

  42. Knight,going wayyy back(I must have missed it)your pre-season prediction has ONLY TWO BU Olineman for 5 positions,and only 1 TE(Fasano).. So w'the 6 remaing spots,I'd say 2 OL(Frye/Ike),2 TE(Haynos/Martin or Wilford),and 2 rookie(NT,ILB,OL),or 2 late-cut pkups..

    I have Frye,Ike,and Gardner making the 53(Alleman??),maybe not the 45,but definately the 53 @ this early juncture...